braided dacron halyard -- twisting

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Originally Posted by knuterikt

What kind of core does your new halyard have, braid or laid?

I'll have to check....I think braid. Would that make a differance? Also when I'm making up the line after the sail is hauled up, I;ve been starting at the cleat and laying the the fig. 8's....I usually don't have problems with it running out when I lower the sail but when I haul it up, you can see the parts starting to twist, in fact it was noticable after the first couple of times when I first rigged her. In fact, I wasn't making the halyard up while testing....I was just hauling and lowering the sail..... I was looking at the Junk Rig Bible and they use braided and suggest coiling it clockwise. If its going in a bag instead of hanging on a cleat they start at the bitter end and begin faking it into the bag....so if I'm faking it in my hand and starting at the cleat would that be the cause??? thanks for any help.

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
First, make sure that your figure-8's are not in fact inducing twists: start with a twist-free rope, coil it, stretch it out, then sight along its length to see if it has twists in it.
If it doesn't, anchor one end of the rope to something solid, and pull on the other end (or some distance away from the first end), and sight along it; if the problem is in the rope, it will show up when you tension the rope.
The site you refer to was deeply mistaken to recommend clockwise coiling -- and counterclockwise would be just as bad -- but neither one is likely to produce dramatic problems, at least in the short term, so my money is on unbalanced rope. Let us know what you find out.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

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Originally Posted by Brion Toss

Hello,
First, make sure that your figure-8's are not in fact inducing twists: start with a twist-free rope, coil it, stretch it out, then sight along its length to see if it has twists in it.
If it doesn't, anchor one end of the rope to something solid, and pull on the other end (or some distance away from the first end), and sight along it; if the problem is in the rope, it will show up when you tension the rope.
Brion Toss

Thanks for the reply Brion. I have some 3/8's that I purchased from the same vendor for the main halyard....hasn't been used so I will do like you suggested. I'll report back.

All the best....

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Originally Posted by Brion Toss

Hello,
First, make sure that your figure-8's are not in fact inducing twists: start with a twist-free rope, coil it, stretch it out, then sight along its length to see if it has twists in it.
If it doesn't, anchor one end of the rope to something solid, and pull on the other end (or some distance away from the first end), and sight along it; if the problem is in the rope, it will show up when you tension the rope.
The site you refer to was deeply mistaken to recommend clockwise coiling -- and counterclockwise would be just as bad -- but neither one is likely to produce dramatic problems, at least in the short term, so my money is on unbalanced rope. Let us know what you find out.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

Hi Brion... I just checked some brandy new 3/8 I bought a few weeks ago. The fellow I purcase from has it tightly coiled up an shipped in a small mailer bag. I unpacked it laid it out on the dock and then faked it down several times doing it from both ends. Made one end off to a piling then grabbed a section about 75 ft away and leaned my weight against it several times....let it relax....then tight and made off. You could see it wanting to twist. Running your fingers over it you can feel small 'bumps' in the core. I took a sharpie and marked the tracer every fifth one. It is twisting ccw. Then I did the same with some 7/16 I bought...never out out the shipping package....same test, same results. On a side note, if the line was good and coiled up wrong, would the line always develope a twist? I think I may have cry like Joe said and buy good stuff from reputable sources. Thanks.

[Joe Henderson]

Tanner,

Why do you think it is called a junk rig.



Does the whole purchase twist when the yard is down and there is no load on it?

If the twists went in from the first then you may have a foul lead on one of the blocks.

If one of the blocks tilts while the line is being hauled through under not much load, then the line may contact the side plates of the bollock and induce a twist.

If this is happening then re-reeving the line in a different pattern may improve things. leading the line square with the blocks at 90degrees often helps.

Is the rope too big for the blocks?

Whatever you do, the ebay rope will probably remain twisted.

There is a lot of absolute crap rope on the market and you will get what you pay for.

Never buy rope for anything other than tying up parcels if you can not see, touch and smell it.

Always spend enough on rope to induce eye watering and always buy 20 % more than you think you need.

Pictures of the offending purchase open and closed will help diagnosis.

Joe.

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Originally Posted by Joe Henderson

Tanner,

Why do you think it is called a junk rig.

Educate me.... I've had a lot of people say nice things about my 'junk'

Does the whole purchase twist when the yard is down and there is no load on it?

Not sure I follow....there are no swivels. Only the lines passing thru the blocks are twisting.

If the twists went in from the first then you may have a foul lead on one of the blocks.

The first time I made the halyards up before stepping the mast. Then when I replaced the fore with smaller line and 3-1 purchase, I made it up on deck and went aloft to attach.

If one of the blocks tilts while the line is being hauled through under not much load, then the line may contact the side plates of the bollock and induce a twist.

I've considered this as well and could be possible. I've used my binos to have a look and it looks like may just be doing that....

If this is happening then re-reeving the line in a different pattern may improve things. leading the line square with the blocks at 90degrees often helps.

Don't follow....the double up top has the pin athwartship and at first I had the single on the yard doing the same. Then I changed the lower so it was 90* from the upper...didn't notice any improvement. Is this what you mean?

Is the rope too big for the blocks?

Well the blocks do look small but they are made for 3/8's...going to a larger block was something I am considering
Someone from another forum suggested hanging two singles up top instead of a double. This may be an option??? Thoughts anybody???

Whatever you do, the ebay rope will probably remain twisted.

Without a doubt
Thanks for the input....

[Joe Henderson]

Tanner,

1. Rigger humour.

2.So the twists remain in the purchase when open?

3.But there may still be a foul and unfair lead to one of the sheaves in one of the blocks, this is all it takes to impart a twist to the line as it travels.

4.See 3. above.

5. Broadly, yes. try to get the parts travelling over the sheaves in opposite directions.
ie up and away from you in one top sheave, down and across in one bottom sheave, up and towards you in one top sheave - repeat as needed to fill the purchase.

6. Big blocks, correct size line, fair leads always. Pictures will help. Also whose blocks are you using?

7. Replace the twisted line. Make sure you actually get 3/8 " Manufacturers sizing romps wildly from one end of the tolearance to the other with no regard for consistency. Take a block in to the chandlery and try the line for fit.

If the boat is the size you say, and the rig divided in two, you may be able to get away with 5/16 in the same blocks.

Joe.

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Joe, thanks for the info. I went oversized but you are right, I can go smaller...and probably will. I think the product is bad. Gonna find another source. Thanks

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Here are a few pictures of the fore halyard twist....

[Brion Toss]

Hi again,
It doesn't look like Samson's, New England's, or any other major. Unbalanced-at-the-factory is the way to bet.
Fair leads
Brion Toss