Dueling experts

[JohnV]

In the widely respected Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics in Offshore Yachts, the authors say that a rope topping lift that passes through a sheave at the masthead isn't "seamanlike" for various reasons. They advocate a wire, fixed at the masthead, with a tackle at the bottom to control the boom height.
John Vigor, in How to Sail Around the World, who I suspect was a pretty "seamanlike" guy, recommends just the opposite.
My boat came with the former--a fixed, coated wire with a block at the end--and I'm debating whether to switch to rope in a spare masthead sheave instead.
Anybody got a coin to flip? Or a viewpoint they'd like to share? There always seem to be multiple "seamanlike" ways to rig for a given purpose. Is that the case here?
John V.

[Robbie.g]

If the boat is being setup for offshore cruising the i'd think it would be seamanlike to have a rope topping lift to use as a spare mainsail halyard, should the need arise.
regards

[Auspicious]

I agree with Robbie. You can never have too many halyards.

[Ian McColgin]

Seems to me that it's easy enough to have spare halyards so for me that's not a reason to prefer a lift that's to a pully at the truck. I really hate wire lifts as leach eaters. I also don't like the ability to change the boom's height limited as the block at the end of wire must be. Since there should be permanently installed reefing lines, having the lift line also running along the boom to a good control point near the mast is just more clutter and the all-too-common alternative of having it out at the end of the boom is a potential hazard of inaccessability.

The wire has the advantage of less windage aloft, achieved at to me unacceptable cost.

[JohnV]

Ian, you're right that accessiblity is a problem. So is standing under the boom while you uncleat the control line with one hand and hold the boom up with the other.
The coated wire doesn't seem to be chafing.
Maybe what I should do is try the spare halyard/topping lift combination. An advantage I can see is that it gives me a spare halyard but with only one additional line down the mast, since the other end goes out to the boom end. And another reason to add a boom gallows.
Thank you for your thoughts.

[Brion Toss]

Hi,
The biggest problem with using the spare main halyard as a topping lift is that, when you need to use it as a spare halyard (skyed or broken the primary; want to set the trys'l before lowering the mains'l), you no longer have a topping lift. In addition, you are working at a mechanical disadvantage, rather than the 2:1, 3:1, or more that you can get with a tackle at the end of the boom.
Take that tackle to a Spectra pendant, and you have a stronger, lighter, softer, corrosion-proof pendant, not that wire thing.
Take the hauling part inside the boom to a belay at the gooseneck, and it's easy to get to.
Make the pendant whatever length you want, to allow for as much boom topping as you are likely to need. If you need to take it higher, you still have that spare main halyard.
A rigid vang can be installed instead of the topping lift. And again,the spare halyard is backup most of the time, but available if you need it.
Finally, you can engineer lazyjacks so that they can function as last-ditch quarter-lifts. This support-in-depth can be quite attractive on boats with very large, heavy booms and no place for a rigid vang, like big catamarans, and monohulls with minimum boom height above deck or other issues.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[Ian McColgin]

Brian alludes to what are called around here "Lazy Ians" but are better called "Lazy Lifts". They are not exactly new or my creation, but are an evolution and combination of some traditional practices, starting with my observation that most lazy jack systems were rigged backwards, putting the parts of the system that acted under the least strain further out on the boom and thus causing the boom to sag if the lazy jacks were used to hold the boom up. The other observation was my annoyance with the weather jacks slapping about and the lee jacks cutting into the sail.

My catboat Marmalade has a very heavy boom and uses a LazyLift system that's 4:1 per side or 8:1 theoretical pull, minus friction which is considerable and minus the extent to which the angle of the rig and where the lines intercept the boom considerably reduce the effective leverage.

For a normal sloop have pulleys under the spreaders. One line passes under the boom about 3/4 out from the tack, up through the pulleys on each side, and down ending in a thimbled eye. A second line passes under the boom about half way back and up, through the respective thimbles, and back down to a belay point on the boom about a quarter back.

Were this rig run through blocks, oriented vertically, and to the end of the boom, it would give a 6:1 lift on whichever side you pull on. Even with the inefficiencies it's powerful enough to pick up the boom and furled sail.

I adjust it so that when the sail is up and full in a moderate breeze (Force 4) the lee side lays against the sail's belly and the weather side is without slack and without load. When we tack, the system shifts under the boom taking the slack out of the old lee side.

The order of the lines ensures that the major weight falls on the line 3/4 out.

No leech mess, no hassle.

For Marmalade with her heavy painted wooden boom I have pulleys rather than thimbled eyes, four parts per side rather than three, chafe guard under the boom, and cleats at each place the lifts pass under the boom. The latter are to have the guide you need to keep the rig in place on the side rather than under the boom and to provide a way to freeze the side to side movement when sailing in light airs and I want to belly the sail by putting some strain on the weather lifts. Very adaptable.

For pix and explanation, check on the WoodenBoat Forum - http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...22#post3172222

G'luck

[JohnV]

Brion, I like your idea--it's the best of both sides. Though Ian's lazy jack plan is quite elegant, too.
Question--using Spectra and your idea of a tackle with the hauling line inside the boom, how skinny a line could you get away with (33 ft cruiser., approx. 245 sq ft main)? I assume you could use something thinner than dacron.
I ask because there's already an unused wire sheave at the end of my boom, and a corresponding exit groove, but the space for the sheave is pretty narrow. There might be room for a 3/16" sheave. Would Spectra of such a small dimension be reasonable for the tackle, assuming I spliced on something thicker, for better handling, before it exits the forward end of the boom?
John V.