Traditionally gaffed rigged with dyneema standing rigging

[movenden]

Hi,

I've been spending a number of hours reading the forum / web about using dyneema rope for standing rigging. Most of the discussions have been directed towards "modern" sailboats where it would be replacing 1X19 SS rigging. I was hoping that some forum members could comment on the use of this material for a traditionally rigged heavy displacement vessel.

Our sailboat is a replica Brittany dundee (logoustier / tuna fishing). We are working on the rigging and are planning to launch next spring - the reason for all my questions lately on this forum.

I had assumed all along we would be using galvinised wire, but it really seems like the newer dyneema rope would be a better suited material. Considering the soft eyes around the mast hounds and deadeyes it looks like an ideal match. Is there something fundemental I'm missing or is it something we should be seriously considering.

From what I have gleemed from the web the biggest issue is the creep, which has been addressed by either using the heat treated rope or the DM20.

Question #1 - are there other materials that would also be suitable ? (considering a heavy displacement boat)

Question #2 - Can you use dyneema as a forestay with hanked on sails ?

Question #3 - I see some articles refering to an overbraid on the dyneema - is this a requirement or added protection ?

Question #4 - Considering the answer in question #3 - has anybody parcelled and served dyneema ?

Question #5 - Does the latest release of the rigger's apprentice cover HM rigging - what are the major updates compared to the older version ?

Any other comments / suggestions / thoughts are welcome !

Cheers,
Mark

[benz]

Hi Mark,

I rigged my Atkins gaff cutter with synthetic shrouds--pics on my website: zartmancruising dot com

I used Vectran with a polyester cover: Samson Ropes' Validator II. Vectran has no creep issues like Dyneema, and if you keep the sun off, it seems to last. If you want additional protection you can slide a Dyneema sleeve over the line, and you can also leather over that if need be. Where chafe is unavoidable I've used a heavy PVC chafe guard called "Spiroll" with great success. The Dyneema sleeve is available in black from Marlow--that's the best look, IMO.

Rather than normal jib hanks, I slid a bunch of round brass thimbles onto the jibstay before splicing it. These each have a short tail of dyneema spliced to them, which I tie to eyelets in the luff of the jib. Takes about as long as hanking would, but the thimbles don't wear on my rope cover. Pics of that on my site as well.

There are more options for heat-set Dyneema than formerly: New England now makes a version called HSR; Marlow makes one called D12 MAX; Dinice makes DUX. I think Vectran still comes out cheaper, but you never know what you'll get when shopping for deals. The fancy multihulls around here (Newport) are all using Kevlar with a black dyneema cover, but those are custom-made to length with end fittings in situ.

For deadeyes, I used Colligo Marine's terminators with Dyneema lanyards. I used leathered soft eyes aloft and have had no problems at all.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions, or email me from the address on my website if you like.
Ben

PS Santa did NOT bring me the latest edition of the Rigger's Apprentice so I don't know if it deals with HM line. But there's a guy around here who might know :0

[krametoc@cell2000.net]

Mark,
I'm another Mark with a small Colvin schooner. I am currently replacing my standing rigging with dyneema, parceled and served. Truth is, the galvanized is still in pretty good shape after 40 years, but my insurance company is worried. So, I am pulling my mast and redoing most things aloft (and at 70, I consider it well worth the cost of doing that, than doing it in a bos'n chair!) I'm using the heat treated and stretched dyneema, 1/4 inch which has similar strength to the galvanized. I am wrapping it in electrical tape, and serving it with #36 tarred twine (a one pound roll does about 50 feet.) This makes it look identical to what I'm replacing. Besides making them look the same, the goal was to limit any ultra violet damage. An added benefit is that it is substantially lighter. Serving the line tightly, it seems to compact the dyneema braid and makes the line much stiffer. This is sort of an experiment for me and with the exception of the triatic stay, the shrouds will be seized onto thimbles (as were the original stays.) I thought about using the dyneema with brass thimbles for the jib stays, but since I have some stainless for the forestays, I'm using that. But, I am putting roller furling on both headsails, and the jib will be on a bowsprit ring so I don't have to go out on the bowsprit to take it in, or to change to the genoa. The head sails will be set flying. An added question: All of the shrouds are wrapped around the masts, which I understand for wooden spars, however, mine are aluminum pipes 5 1/2 inch diameter 1/4 inch wall thickness, so I am planning to attach with shackles to welded on tabs. Any problems with this? I'll send an update when I am complete in a week or so. Please feel free to contact me.
Mark Hall
Schooner "Del Viento"

[movenden]

Hi,

Quick thanks of replies - this is all very interesting. Mark, I'll give you an email with my contact info - I'd really like to see some photos of your work.

Cheers,
Mark

[benz]

Ahoy the second Mark,

You can absolutely use soft eyes looped around the mast with your aluminum poles--I've done so with mine, for lowers, caps and running backstays, and it works perfectly. It is cheaper and lighter than a welded tang, shackle and thimble. You can leather the eye for best protection.

Ben

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
We have rigged numerous boats with Spectra/Dyneema, both traditional and modern. It can be readily served; we parcel with friction tape, both to provide a slightly adhesive bedding for the service, and to provide one more sunlight barrier. Of course, the service isn't needed to prevent corrosion of other types.
We mostly use HSR, but Vectran is excellent, if you can keep the sun off. Braided covers are also available, though hard to find in this country at the moment.
Re the schooner, you are very, very liable to creep issues, as preventing those requires that you have a lower relative working load than with wire. So I am hoping that the wire was way stronger than it needed to be...
And yes, The new Apprentice] has a lot of information about HM rigging.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[movenden]

Originally Posted by Brion Toss

. Braided covers are also available, though hard to find in this country at the moment.

Hi Brion,
I'm thinking you could use an electrical cabling cover braid. Lots of suppliers and different materials available. Couple links below for example.

Cheers,
Mark

https://www.glenair.com/braid/b.htm

http://canada.newark.com/alpha-wire/...2mm/dp/86K8699

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
As I understand it, braided cabling covers are how braided rope got its start. And you can get a variety of cover-only ropes suitable for covering HM cores. The trouble is that you have to get the core into the cover, instead of having a machine do the job while the rope is being made.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss