Rig a staysail stay

[Roberto11]

Good morning,

I would like to rig a staysail stay to use jib/staysail on my 10 meter steel boat.
I would like to understand what is the distance the two stays need to be apart for the best interaction between sails.
And if they need to be parallel one to the other.
I have now a masthead rig stay (4.1 meter J) and a second removable stay positioned 0.5 m. lower and 1.2 m. in.
The mast supported on deck: 13.25 m.
(2 spreader at 5.4 m. and 9.7 m. from the deck)
Double backstays, no running backstays.
4 lower, 2 medium, 2 high shrouds

I have been sailing on the trades using mostly a big genoa on the furling system or a smaller flat cut upwind staysail on the removable stay.

thank you

Roberto

[Ian McColgin]

Not nearly enough information. When you chat with a local sail maker or qualified rigger, he or she will be looking for detailed info on the existing sail plan, like all dimensions of mast height and position in the boat, mainsail dimensions, total foretriangle information, et cetera. Then he or she will be interested in the mast's construction. And on and on.

Have a consult with someone who can view your boat.

G'luck

[Roberto11]

thank you Ian!
I will check with a rigger when I will be in NZ in the next weeks.
I tough was easy...

[Ian McColgin]

Good to check. As an example of complexities, many boats shift to becoming "cutters" with the addition of a staysail stay and find that the pull necessitates running backstays to counter the load. Others don't.

And the reverse happens. Bob Perry, who so repopularized the double headsail rig thirty years ago or so, once remarked on the amazing number of clients who asked him about just removing the forestaysail and its stay.

Both my schooners had a forestaysail tacked to the stem inside the jib, which was on a bowsprit. I found having the forestaysail up with the overlapping (as in 120% of J) jib was less efficient than have the forestaysail down. I also found that in all but the lightest winds going to weather was more efficient with forestaysail and smaller jib that just barely overlapped the staysail, not back past the foremast. That may have been partly because for both my schooners the big jibs were far from new but there you have it.

If you do go for a forestaysail, consider foredeck safety as you plan for any club or boom. Personally I'm a fan of the camber spar here but not all would agree and even that is not without some hazard.

There's a great deal of interlocking factors to be considered in even small rig changes.

G'luck

[benz]

Hi Roberto,

I don't think the stays have to be parallel--that's an urban myth. If they needed to be so, then the sails would need to be the same width aloft as alow. Ridiculous.
But as Ian said, if you have a huge jib, you kinda don't want a staysail. Both of the boats of that nature I've sailed a lot have had smaller jibs, which made them easier to tack. A good sailmaker can make a jib and staysail that will work together and get the most out of both.
Ben

[Roberto11]

thank you Ian and Benz for your explanations about performances and differences
I didn't have the opportunity yet to speak with a rigger.
My boat is not out of a serie, so I cannot really speak with other owners already tried a different sail plan.
What interested me (even just to increase my knowledge ) is the "recommended distance" in between the sail on a 10 m, no bowsprit boat .
There is a rule about it or is just dictate by the experience of the rigger ??
What is your opinion??
If more information can help, please ask!!
thank you!!

As I said before I sailed quite a ot of miles with the configuration i have: a big genoa downwind or medium size staysail when the wind reinforce and I have to go upwind.
Now the staysail is ready for the garbage bin and I will maybe do some upwind sailing.
For this I was thinking about put on the furler a smaller working jib/yankee to use with a staysail
looking forward for your comments

thanks
Roberto

[Roberto11]

thank you Ian and Benz for your explanations about performances and differences
I didn't have the opportunity yet to speak with a rigger.
My boat is custom made, so I cannot really speak with other owners already tried a different sail plan.
What interested me (even just to increase my knowledge ) is the "recommended distance" in between the sail on a 10 m, no bowsprit boat .
There is a rule about it or is just dictate by the experience of the rigger ??
What is your opinion??
If more information can help, please ask!!
thank you!!

As I said before I sailed quite a ot of miles with the configuration i have: a big genoa downwind or medium size staysail when the wind reinforce and I have to go upwind.
Now the staysail is ready for the garbage bin and I will maybe do some upwind and stronger wind sailing.
For this I was thinking about put on the furler a smaller working jib/yankee to use with a staysail
looking forward for your comments

thanks
Roberto

[Ian McColgin]

Length of the boat, while not all together irrelevant, is hardly the most important variable in deciding where or even if one might locate a forestaysail. "J", the distance from the bottom of the jibstay back to the mast, really matters more. And all this is assuming without evidence that yours is a masthead rig. A 3/4 rig is most unlikely to ever sport a forestaysail but 7/8ths rigs with a forestaysail inside the jib are not unknown.

What makes you think you need a forestaysail? Are you really after a way to set up a snugger rig for heavy weather, or what?

It would be fun to speculate on a forestaysail if we had detailed information on the boat, like a sail plan and hull profile at the minimum. Best have a consult with a qualified NA, sailmaker or rigger who can look the boat over and pick your brain a bit.

G'luck