Building Lazy Jacks

[Mariner4152]

Greetings everyone,

I am thinking about building a set of Lazy Jacks for my boat. I am getting into doing all my own rope-work. I have a small 19 ft Stuart Mariner. It is essentially a day sailor, my first boat and lives on it's trailer most of the time. I sail primarily with my wife and two young children. Most of our trips involve stops at beaches for the girls to play. The Main is fitted with sail lugs so it stays in the slot but it is still all over the place until I get it loosely furled onto the boom.

While at the Great Lakes Tall-Ship Challenge in Chicago a couple weeks ago, I noticed two different types of lazy jacks. Some with blocks on the legs and others with ropes spliced into the lazy jack halyard. From the information I have been able to find on the internet, the preferred method of construction appears to involve using thimbles or blocks for adjust-ability.

I am planning on building the jacks using 3 strand 1/4 rope. Install a couple cheek blocks about 70% up the mast and a couple of small cleats near the bottom of the mast. I was thinking I could just splice the legs into halyards. Install 3 eye straps along the bottom of the boom. Splice a small fast-eye clip at the bottom of each leg. That way the whole system would be easily installed/removed when getting the boat read to sail/trail. The mast is about 25ft tall and the boom just over 10ft long.

Any thoughts on why this would not be a good solution?

Do you see any problems?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or opinions.
Greg.

[Brian Duff]

you don't want blocks.
use small dyneema line and it will remain slippery enough to move easily when retracted.

I strongly recommend making them adjustable from above, as opposed to along the boom, so that you can adjust them even with the mainsail down.

I like to have my lazy jacks stowed when the main is down , so that its easy to hoist and clear to sail, then just before dropping we set them, drop the main, furl it, then put them away.

Ideally the fall of the lazy jacks from above is run internal on the rig.

That said, my current boat at 32' is too small for lazy jacks. (IMHO)

[Mariner4152]

Thanks for the info. Probably build the first pair from a cheaper rope the first time to work out the bugs in the system.

With respect to being adjustable, that was the plan for the check blocks up near the top of the mast then lead the halyards back to the bottom and cleat them off. That way I could raise or lower the lazy jacks as needed. The area of concern for me is where the legs attach to the boom. Do I need the legs to be adjustable or is it Ok to just terminate them at the boom? Should the front legs have more slack to allow for more sail bulk?

Thanks again.
Greg.

[blahman]

Hi Greg,

I've built a few stackpacks and lazyjack systems for people, including myself, and prefer to use 1/4" three-strand dacron for the jacks.

I lashed a teardrop stainless thimble a couple feet below the upper eyes of my lower after shrouds, then a plastic cleat down at a serviceable level to make the lazyjacks to:

Photo of thimble (I don't want any crap for my ugly lashing...it was night and post uh...dinner...and its beverages
Photo of cleat

The 1/4" dacron runs up from the cleat, through the thimble, then down to the stackpack with butterfly knots tied in three places on the main lazyjack line. Then two sections of line rove through the butterfly knots and tied to the stackpack at the appropriate length to support it in four places, with a single length supporting the front. So the two aft-most legs are one line rove through a butterfly knot (eye), and the two middle legs also one line. In this way you can adjust the tension by tightening the legs, or by tighting the entire stackpack's lazyjack line:

Photo of lazyjacks supporting stackpack
Photo of lazyjack line made off to cleat on shroud, and stackpack.


I do not think it is necessary to use Dyneema for lazyjacks, unless you were going to have the lazyjacks support the boom as a topping lift. My polyester three-strand has been on the boat for three years and is doing a great job. Plus, the whole lazyjack system cost about $20. Though mine is setup for use with a stackpack, the concept is identical for a standard lazyjack rig. Also, after some tweaking of placement of the butterfly knots, I don't have trouble with the roach of the main getting caught in the jacks, as long as the boom is sheeted into the wind.

Cheers,
Aaron N.

[Brian Duff]

dyneema is the right product as it doesn't need thimbles, blocks or any such junk. it is also very skinny for low ugliness factor, and very UV resistant for longevity. You always want to retract your lazy jacks for setting sail and sailing, otherwise they are a pita. the W32 is too small for lazy jacks too, btw. ( thats what I sail mostly too, and the lazy jacks actually made the sail take LONGER to put away....!!!)

adjusting from aloft is a must, but don't stay outside the rig! either fasten a bullseye fairlead to the spreader about 6" out from the mast and then in, or just drill a small hole in the mast and round off, lead the dyneema right into the rig. Use a single control line with a small block or ring inside the mast to adjust both sides together, or each individually depending on how you like it. Super smooth, simple, have put up maybe almost 50 like this.... it works.

dacron will not work without thimbles rings or blocks because its not slippery enough....certainly not a year down the line.

[Auspicious]

I'm with Brian. I don't have any blocks for my lazy jacks, just a bullseye on the first spreader.

For me the key to controlling the sail -- with or without lazy jacks, is to pull the sail back and flake it as it comes down and stop dropping to tie the sail down as you go forward. This is trivial with two people and reasonable with one (although one spends a lot of time heading forward and back).

[blahman]

Well, different ways of tackling the same horse. You choose to drill a hole to mount a bullseye, or run a line inside the mast, I lash a fairlead and keep the line outside. You dyneema, I polyester. Whatever. The polyester has been working fine on my boat for three years.

As for your opinion of lazyjacks, I disagree. With the stackpack and lazyjacks, I barely have to touch my mainsail, and it makes the whole experience much easier for my 60 year old parents who are novice sailors. Since we don't have to touch the sail, other than pulling slab reefing lines into the pac after lowering, the material isn't getting worked by hands and I think that makes a big difference in sail shape over time. I rarely touch my lazyjacks and certainly don't lower them every time I raise the main - only when I want to raise or lower the main when below a beam reach after setting a spinnaker. Otherwise I head up to something over beam reach, sheet the main out and it is never a problem to leave the jacks up. The complaint about the roach getting caught shows one isn't heading up and/or sheeting out, or that the lazyjack's legs weren't installed in a way that guides the sail up. As for lowering, again - that's never a problem for us - head up some, sheet out and the main goes where it's supposed to. Again, the stackpack doesn't make that much difference - it worked the same before when simply lazyjacks. Without a pack, as Auspicious said, flaking the sail as it comes down can be very helpful, especially if you don't have a lazyjack leg far aft on your boom to keep the lower leach in place.

On a more personal note, this "a 32' boat is too small" thing is opinion and fairly ridiculous and the idea that lazyjacks have to moved out of the way to hoist, just the same. I can believe you have trouble getting lazyjacks to work because I've seen experienced people have trouble with them, usually due to the forward leg's position. But it's unfair to go around telling people that jacks don't work and shouldn't be used on "small" (because a 300ft/2 main is tiny) boats. Consider that, however slim you may think the chances are, something about your lazyjacks may be keeping them from working the way they are supposed to. It is terribly condescending to respond to posts by essentially saying "what he just said is wrong and can't work and this is the only way you should do it, when that person has just finished saying "this works for me."

I don't mean to be offensive, but dislike when people flatly dismiss other's methods of doing things. A 32' boat to you may be small, but to another its main is a beast that's hard to tackle, etc, etc. The internet and forums like this are a great resource and place for people to discuss what works for themselves to the end of helping others.

~Aaron

[Ian McColgin]

One of the trials of small boats is they often lack the conveniences of larger boats, and lazy jacks are a great convenience indeed. For a boat like the Stuart, indeed for marconi sails up to maybe 400 square feet, a very simple system that combines quarter lifts with lazy jacks, known locally as LazyIans in the mistaken belief that I thought of this. More properly LazyLifts. LazyLifts eliminate the topping lift, with all the damage it does the leach of the sail, and eliminates the slappy-sloppy of the weather side of conventional lazy jacks.

Instead of cheek blocks up on the mast, you can simply lash a block under each spreader and inch or so out from the mast. If you think of the boom divided into quarters, the lifts will pass under the boom 3/4 back, half back, and probably in a small boat cleat 1/4 back.

It’s made of two different lines:

The longer passes under the boom 3/4 back, up through the blocks under the spreaders, and down about half way to deck, terminating at each end in a thimbled eye. (No need for blocks.)

The shorter passes under the boom half way back, up through the thimbled eyes, and down to the boom 1/4 of the way back.

Simple strap eyes will keep the two loops in position. One cleat on the starboard side of the boom - so it’s handy to you’re handling of the main halyard, reefing lines, etc. - will accommodate both parts of the falls from the shorter line.

If you draw the geometry you will see that this arrangement puts most of the lift on the boom on the aftermost loop. The brand name lazy-jack systems do this exactly backwards and if used as lifts, will allow considerable boom sag. With lazy lifts you would have a 4:1 lift pulling on just one side were the parts all together and absent friction. There’s lots of friction - useful in this application - and one loop and the falls are not out on the boom so it’s more like 2:1 actual effort but with a light small boom like this, no problem.

Until the sail is up enough that the leach starts to lift the boom, the LazyLifts will be tight. Once you have the system adjusted, the lifts will slacken as luff tension is added. When the sail is filled, the lifts will be pushed out on the lee side, thus tightening on the weather side. So you don’t have a lot of slapping about.

When you reef or otherwise want to peak up the boom, the adjustment is right there and handy.

I can give details of how to rig this in advance, rig up or down, for those interested but for now . . .

G’luck

Ian

[Robbie.g]

blahman

I rarely touch my lazyjacks and certainly don't lower them every time I raise the main - only when I want to raise or lower the main when below a beam reach after setting a spinnaker.

The way i read this is that you drop the main after setting the spinnaker!!
You cant be serious. or have i missed somthing

[blahman]

Robbie,

You read that correctly. I have 1000ft/2 asymmetric that I can use up to about 85* apparent; from there down to ~140* off, I'll often leave the main up and spinnaker unpolled, especially when in a harbor. I use a sock and single sheet, so if I have to gybe, I douse the asymm to move the sheet out and around, during which time it's nice to have the main up for blanketing and maneuverability; it lets the windvane do its job while I gybe the spinnaker.

If while on that broad reach I decide to set the pole for something deeper, I usually head down, get the asymm polled and drawing well, then drop the main without heading up. I find it easier to drop the leeward lazyjack, then sheet the main in and bring it down slowly, flaking it onto the boom while letting the windvane steer. On that run, there's not much pushing on the main, whereas if I head up to a beam reach (as high as I can get while keeping the asymm full), it's real hard on the main to come down, with all the apparent wind dragging it alone the shrouds and spreaders. I'd rather let the windvane sail the boat on the run and take a bit more time getting the main down, keeping it off the rigging.

Of course, if I am close reaching and decide I want to set the spinnaker for a run, I drop all three sails, then set the asymm; but if the chute has been set for a POS used with the main and I want to go down, I don't go through the hassle of dropping it and then resetting.

It seems to work well for me.

~A