johnson life line terminals, lever vs. handtool

[seawolf]

Hello all.
I am looking for some information regarding my next project on Volador, my 1962 Columbia 29. I am looking at options for installing new life lines. If I decide to go with wire, is there any more strength in the hand crimp attachment using the lever tool vs. the hand tool?. I read that the hand tool requires 5 crimps per terminal vs. the four for the lever tool. I believe I would have a total of 14 fittings to crimp (x5) with the hand tool and that seems like a lot of work.
Although the hand tool is around $50.00 vs. $200 for the lever.
Thanks for any recommendations.
Seawolf

[Stumble]

Seawolf,

While your question is well thought out, I think you are making a poor decision on even using wire, kinda making the question of the type of crimper redundant.

I replaced my wire lifelines with amsteel a few years back, and would never consider switching back to wire. They are lighter, stronger, don't rip off your hair (remember coated wire is dangerous, dangerous stuff and should never be used on boats), and much much cheaper. Basically my new rope life lines cost me a grand total of $150 for a 30 foot sailboat, significantly less than even a few of the fittings I would otherwise have had to buy. And two years later they still look brand new, no chaffing issues at all, no wear points, no significant stretch, and this is on a hard raced boat.

To answer your question, I don't think there is a real difference in hand and level crimping in terms of safety, so I would go with the cheaper option. And honestly 14X4 or 14X5 crimps either way sounds like a really long day.

[seawolf]

Stumble,
Thanks your reply. I have been thinking of amsteel or other hi-mod line also. In some blogs it is recommended in changing the line every three years due to UV. If that is the case, it may be more expensive in the long run.
Did you use commercial stainless fittings for splicing the line to, such as gate hooks and hardware for tension, splicing to pulpit, ect.
Do you have a picture of your lifelines?
Thanks again, and fair winds.
Bob

[Stumble]

I actually don't have any metal fittings on my lifelines. I spliced the forward end to the bow pulpit ran the line through the stantions and then about a foot from the end spliced in a loop. From there I ran a piece of cord from the loop to the rear pulpit ring (where a fitting would normally go) and back a few times to get a good bit of purchace and ties it off. This worked fine until my crew started begging for a belly band between the middle stantions, which I then had made up. It made the installation more complicated, but it does make the racing crew much happier.

As for replacing after 3 years... I am at 2 now, and see no wear at all in the line. If it becomes necessary I would of course replace it, but so far there is no chaff anywhere I can find, and none of the fibers are starting to fuzz from UV so I am not really worried about it for now. But even if I did have to replace the line every 3 years it still would come out significantly less than wire every 10. Since the basic system really only cost $120. The way I figure it is that the cost for 10 years for the line would come out to $360, vs the price for just the end fittings for wire would be more than that alone.

I don't have any pictures of it currently but I can take some and post them for you to see how I have it done.

[seawolf]

Sounds like you untie your lashing when ever you want to drop the lines. I would like to add a gate to my lines for easier access and loading, climbing on deck from dingy and that sort of stuff.
What size did you use for your lines? I would imagine a line small enough that its spliced eye can still go through the stanchion hole?
My old style stanchions have end caps with an eye built in. One set of lines only.
Using the Amsteel makes a lot of sense. It will also force me to do something I have been wanting to do for a long time. Learn to splice. I haven't graduated from beyond the 3 strand eye splice yet.
Good luck on your racing program.
And thanks again for your assistance.
Fair winds.
Bob

[Stumble]

For me size was a factor of my one design class so I am not sure it is directly applicable, however ISAF rule 3.14.6 "Lifeline Minimum Diameters, Required Materials, Specifications" requires a vessel 8.5m-13m to use at least 4 mm (5/32 in) wire. If you size your lifelines based upon breaking strength you would need to use the same size Dyneem (use amsteel blue for this application) as wire (the rope has a slightly higher breaking strength than the same size wire). Personally for a cruising boat I would probably go up another size or two depending on the size of holes I have in the stantions, but I can't point to a good justification for doing so, other than bigger is better, and the strength goes up significantly for each additional mm of diameter (4,000lbs for 4mm, 5400 for 5, 8600 for 6). Check out Samsons website at http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files...0_Catalog_.pdf for more information.

There may be other acceptable splices for this stuff, but I used the splice from the manufacturers website at http://www.samsonrope.com/site_files/12S_C2_EyeSpl.pdf . Took me about an afternoon to do the entire boat, though I am sure If I had had either more or less beer it would have taken less time. I am trying to get out to the boat to take pictures, buts it has been a heck of a weekend.

[Stumble]

I finally got some pictures of the lifelines, hopefully they post ok. As you can see I forgot to mention the chaff guards I threaded on the line when they were installed, though after looking at them closely today I don't actually see any chaffing on either the line or the guards. And remember these are now 2 years old, and as far as I can tell look brand new.

Overview of the boat


Close up of the Bow. You can see that the top lifeline has a loop spliced into in and is just wrapped around the pulpit while the bottom also has been spliced but is variable (due to the hiking pad).


Close up of the hiking pad (the only thing made by my sailmaker, completely useless for cruising.

[Stumble]

Here you can see a sleave I put over the line as a chaff guard on the top lifeline. To be honest these were a real pain to get right, and I think completely useless when compared to the wear on the bottom lifelines where I couldn't install them (The splice for the hiking pad kept them from fitting). If anything I would have just gone up another size and saved all the work trying to get the chaff guards in the right position.


This is a close up of the rear pulpit with lashing tying the line off. I probably would shorted the lifeline if I did it again by about 3 inches, but only because I spliced one too long, and now have to go back and redo it.

[seawolf]

Stumble,
I was able to look at the pictures.
That is a great help. The splicing looks clean and uncluttered without expensive fittings.
I think the only thing I may do different is to install a gate, as we do a lot of raft ups and I do not like the idea of the lines just drooping down from the stanchions and causing a trip hazard for people walking across the boat.
I am getting excited about learning the splices and putting it all together.
Volador has a blue hull, so the amsteel blue may be a good compliment.
Thanks again for your help and the pics.
Bob

[Stumble]

Happy to help,

But note that Amsteel Blue is a specific type of Amsteel available in a variety of colors. There is also a type of line called Amsteel which is available in blue (I am pretty sure), that is not the same thing.