synthetic rigging and roller furler

[kentobin]

Hi All,

I plan on re-rigging with synthetic rigging and was wondering what solution(s), if any, are being used for a roller furler on dynex dux or equivalent.

A similar vacuum in my knowledge base is what solution(s) are in use for making a backstay antenna with dynex dux or attaching some type of antenna to a backstay made of dynex dux.

I've found a number of links to using synthetic rigging but none covering the above topics.

One of my favorite sites on synthetic rigging threads has been: http://www.cruisersforum.com/.

Thanks in advance.

Fair winds and following seas and long may your big jib draw,

Ken

[Jack]

Kentobin,

So far the only furler that fits a Dux forestay is Spintec. There is a conflict with the size of the rope and splice not fitting a foil designed for wire. The splice on 9mm Dynex Dux has a two foot bury. This makes the rope fat at the top and bottom.

A number of boats have left the wire on the forstay (the Westsail for one) There is no problem swapping out or mix and matching Wire/Rope.

It is recommended if you change one side, change the other side to match.

Continuous line furlers have replaced Roller Furlers on many boats now also. Photos at:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...r-22345-4.html

There is a lot of discussion on SSB's. Dux has the same insulator properties as phenolic. You can run a bare copper wire up the side of a backstay for a radio. We thought maybe to run it up inside the rope, but this will create a stress riser according to the engineers.I am no expert, but we use the bare copper wire in Alaska on the big boats. Works great.


What size boat/Rig do you have?

[Gary]

Ken,
I am rigging my boat with synthetic. You may want to check out what I did for roller furling using Dyneema. I LOVE the setup!
Go to www.garyfelton.com/shanti

Have fun!
Gary

[Jack]

Gary those are wonderful photos. You boat looks great. BCC is still one of my all time favorite boats.

I believe you have a continuous line furler on your bowsprit set up Nice looking solution you have there.

This is not a roller furling set up however. They are similar but very different.

A continuous line furler can be added anywhere as it does not require a stay to go over as rolling furler does.

I also use a continuous line furler and love it. I have rolled up 3 different headsails with it, and have tacked it on the outer bows on my Trimaran when running off the wind, to get a full headsail not blanketed by the mainsail.

The problem for guys with rolling furlers is the foil is designed for a certain size wire. Using a synthetic line does not fit. There are splices on each end of the headstay that have two foot bury on 9mm Dux for example. This is just too fat for the foil.

[kentobin]

I'd like to thank everyone for their posts.

If Brion or Gordon should happen read this are you planning on a synthetic rigging class or seminar?

Fair winds and following seas and long may your big jib draw!

Ken

[Gashmore]

I don't believe i would use Dynex Dux inside a roller furling foil unless the foil was supplied with fixed bearings to keep the foil off the Dynex. I have been torturing a length of 9mm for the last year testing elongation, creep and abrasion. This stuff is incredibly tough but the yarns are made up of incredibly small fibers that can get a little fuzzy with enough abrasion. An aluminum foil rubbing around it every day in places where you can't see it would make me a little wary.

OTHO, on the backstay antenna, I stuffed a piece of 16 gauge bare tinned and braided copper inside my victim and pulled it to 60% of MBL and it stood up fine. It does increase the angle of the lay which theoretically increases the load on the yarns but bare 16 gauge is about the same size as a yarn of 9mm and there is one of those at the end of the taper of both splices so I am not so sure that it making a stress riser point is much to worry about. You really need to size Dynex Dux to no more than 12-15% of MBL to keep the creep in check so a few percent loss in breaking strength should not be noticeable.

A few other things: This rope is so stiff that running 23' of wire up inside it would be a real PITA. I would use annealed copper because when you pull it to reset the yarns it is going to grab the wire long before it completely stretches out. There is a good chance that the hard temper copper sold for Ham antennas would get pulled apart. Lastly be sure to run the wire in and tension the line to at least 2,000 pounds before cutting and putting in the second splice. The wire is going to considerably shorten the length.

[Andy Schell]

My solution to the furler issue to not to have one at all. I'm setting up my 35' yawl for offshore work, and plan on rigging with synthetics, and doing it as follows:

-on the bow, I'll have a 100% working jib, hanked on with either bronze or 'softie' hanks, onto a synthetic forestay
-on a synthetic inner forestay, I'll have the same setup, with either a staysail genoa, or a storm staysail. Most likely when heading offshore I'll leave the storm sail permanently hanked so it's ready to go instantly.
-Just inside the forestay, I'll have a 180% genoa rigged on a continuous line furler, independent of the forestay. This can stay rigged in normal conditions, dropped on deck when not needed. Even better would be to rig this on a bowsprit, if I had one.

I consider this the best setup for an ocean-going boat - three sails, ready to go, including a storm sail, with no need to hank on and off sails, and a furler that is independent from the forestay. Just recently before the Carib 1500 cruising rally, a Hylas jammed their conventional roller-furler with the sail half in, half out, and struggled with it for two hours. The end result? - The entire forestay came tumbling down on deck from the strain they'd put on it using the winch trying to unjam it, and the mast would have followed but they had an inner stay. Thankfully it was only on the Chesapeake, but it made my mind up.

[Brion Toss]

[quote= Just recently before the Carib 1500 cruising rally, a Hylas jammed their conventional roller-furler with the sail half in, half out, and struggled with it for two hours. The end result? - The entire forestay came tumbling down on deck from the strain they'd put on it using the winch trying to unjam it, and the mast would have followed but they had an inner stay. Thankfully it was only on the Chesapeake, but it made my mind up.[/QUOTE]

As Mark Twain said, "If a cat jumps up on a hot stove, it will never jump up on a hot stove again. Of course, it will never jump up on a cold one, either." That Hylas was a hot stove, but a properly-installed and -used furler isn't. Nothing the matter with hank-on, but let's be fair.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[Brian Duff]

That's a funny story about the hylas forestay- mainly because I was at the depature marina for a week or more before participating in the rally aboard our schooner, and didn't see or hear anything about any forestay coming down... Might be a bit of the ol operator game there....

Headsail furling reefing gears work , certainly when installed correctly, use them with faith.
I wonder if dux would hold up better to halyar wrap than stainless? Who can test that one for us?

Eager to set my own westsail up with this stuff- just gtta sell a few boats, first

[Andy Schell]

Furlers do work, and they work great when installed and maintained. Just offering an alternative solution, and enjoying the discussion.

Brian (Duff), we met at the 1500, I was talking about the synthetic rigging at the skipper's meeting, and was aboard your schooner...anyway, I actually helped the guys with the broken furler as it was happening, rowing over in the kayak from the boat I was on to help them get it down. They had engine trouble as well, so we stood by waiting for them to get the sail down to give them a tow...they struggled for 2 hours before it finally broke the forestay right after I arrived - the furling drum had jammed, and the strain they placed on it with the winch trying to make it turn had unscrewed a norseman/stalock fitting on the forestay at the masthead, so they speculated that it was indeed installed incorrectly. It happened at night, and didn't get much attention since they got it fixed so quickly. The rigger's that the Carib 1500 works with made a super effort getting them a new Shafer gear and forestay, installed before the race start. So I don't think it was operator error, just a bad install perhaps? I think the system was fairly old as well, though not sure how old.

Anyway, just offering my ideas. I still think hank-on is the way to go, for me, on a small boat anyway, and it doesn't mean a furler is not...to each his own.

-Andy