Insulating Mast Winch - Fair leads

[blahman]

Hello all,

I recently removed the three halyard, and one reefing winch from my (new-to-me) 1976 Westsail 32. It appears they've been on there in excess of ten or fifteen years - maybe since 1976. The bases were loaded with salt crystals and corrosion, and the grease on the shaft was like cured polysulfide. Not a pretty sight. I'm happy to say that I only broke one of 24 screws off, which seems miraculous considering the amount of hammering my impact wrench got.

Anywho, I plan to reinstall the winches (now that they work), but am not sure how to insulate them. The bronze-base winches (Barient 16s) had plastic sheets below, but they self-destructed on removal. I'm not sure how important material is here as long as it is neutral - my father suggested a coffee can lid.

I've read about UHMW tape on here, but am not sure of how it's used, or even if for winch insulation. I intend to make it a yearly venture to pull the all of the winches off their surfaces to clean and service, so perhaps the black plastic coffee lid would work. I can't help but think there would be a better way to go though - a thicker black nylon or something.


Also, I have external halyards that have a fair lead a bit far away - at the masthead, actually. If one hauls on a line quickly, it overrides, so I think a proper fair lead is called for. I'm unsure of the best hardware to use on a mast though - I know it will take quite a bit of strain, so I don't want to mucker it up.

I have lurked on this board for some time and appreciate all of the information available.


Love, luck and sweet, salmonella-free tomatoes,
Aaron N.
W32 #482 - Asia Marie

[Ian McColgin]

Ahoy Aaron,

If your winches are mounted right on the mast, either someone didn't worry much about the fit or the section is flat or maybe the winches are up on a sort of rail like lift. The latter is good but you can't get the lead you want, which I don't recommend anyway but that's coming below.

The winch should have a pad of a durable molded in place plastic (I like MarineTex for this) or, I feel better, wood. A really fast way to get the fit is to rough out the hollow with a chisel, then hold some coarse (40# to 60# sandpaper on the mast and rub the hollow smooth. It's quick and easy and makes a fit good enough that you'll only need a little bedding compound under the pad and under the winch.

As to the lead, if you cock the winch down to make the lead as you might properly cock a sheet winch horizontally out, you make a situation where the winch handle can fall out more readily (even with a lock) but more importantly where your hold for grinding is actually harder to use.

I like my winches dead normal to the mast. I hoist most of the way just hauling and pop a wrap on when I'm within a few feet of the truck. It's easier to pull down, using some weight. But so long as you're hauling and not grinding, at least have only one turn on the winch. It's almost impossible to get a wrap with but one turn. Add the other two turns for grinding only when you're about to stick the handle in and grind.

It's pleasing that the convention of halyards controlling sails forward of the mast (jibs, staysails, etc.) are to port while sails set abaft the mast (mains, mizzens, foresails) are to starboard has survived to modern boats. At least for the right-handed majority. When you get to grinding, the natural stance lets you crank with the right hand, tail with the left, and hold a stance that gives a view of the sail in question.

G'luck

Ian

[blahman]

Ian,

Thank you for the response. My Barient 16s are mounted on aluminum pads welded on by the manufacturer (LeFeil or however it's spelled) and are exactly perpendicular to the mast. My Barient 10 (stays'l hal'd) is on a pad screwed to the mast with the winch's mounting screws going through and into the mast. I was not planning to insulate this winch as its base is anodized aluminum, but please let me know if there is a reason I should.

Any thoughts on what to insulate the bronze-base winches with?

My boom's reefing winch did not have a true pad - just gobs of 5200 underneath, faired to look like a pad. I had planned to make one out of some Seaboard I have, with the winch sandwiching it to the boom with its own fasteners.

As for the fairlead, I was thinking it might be smart to have a piece of hardware (eye bolt, chock, or hook) for the halyard to run through near the winch so the lead to the winch is always the same. However, I like to pull my lines out away from the mast when not in use, so I had thought about using a stainless "hook" of some sort for this so the line doesn't have to be unrove every time I want to kill a halyard slap. I'm just not sure of the best way to mount a fair lead on aluminum without weakening the mast with big holes or something.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Juicy mangoes,
Aaron N.

[SV Papillon]

I am a big fan of dolfinite. They have a white above water compound that would be fine. It never really gets hard and is easy to use. Does a good job keeping the water out and will be easy to remove next time. Waste marine used to sell this teflex stuff for SS fastners in aluminum but I'm not sure if they do anymore. It worked really well. Otherwise a food grade, IE non metal never seize(Bostik or others) from the hardware store will do the trick for the fastners.

Jake

You do want to bed the winch. when under load it will move and allow saltwater to get between and start corroding. A good flexible bedding compound will take care of this.

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
Isolate everything, even aluminum in contact with aluminum, as different alloys are likely in play, and they have different electrical potentials. Plus of course there are stainless screws going through both. Use materials that won't ever allow water intrusion (Tef-Gel, UHMW); many plastics, for instance, will absorb water, so no coffee can lid.
As for the leads, give serious though to internalizing the halyards: you'll halve the possibility of skying; reduce windage; and guarantee fair leads. I like to reverse the traditional order of belays for internal halyards, to get fairer leads inside the mast on the way to the winches; as I understand it, the conventional external arrangement is the way it is because that way you'll get something like a fair lead to a clockwise winch.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[blahman]

Thanks to all who replied.

I wound up using 1/16" thick PVC shower pan liner for the insulation. Will not absorb water, UV stable and bloody easy to work with. I bedded the fasteners in Life Seal as Tef-Gel is not available locally. In addition, I have read on this board and others that Life Seal out performs TG in the tropics.

Either way, I intend to pull and service my winches annually; that oughtn't be enough time for significant corrosion to take place.

As for the fairlead, I've opted to stick with how the boat is set up. It has been working for 30 years with no fairlead/line running right from the mast head. A bit of diligence when hauling and it is fine.

Thank you for your input,
Aaron N.