Profurl Vs. Schaefer Furling Gear

[seawolf]

Brian,
It sounds as if the profurl design is a little outdated, and as you say, possibly poorly done from the start. I read of your problems in the archive articles. I will take a look at the furlex as I have not researched that brand.
What do you feel are the attributes to this system over others?
Bob

[Brian Duff]

it depends on your intended use.

for high halyard loads or real heavy use , the furlex halyard swivel design provides a more smooth turning furler by pressing the loads inside the edge of the bearing race, allowing all bearings to help out, instead of just the ones on the loaded area. also the bearing are stainless steel which will remain round longer than the plastic balls in some other units (thats profurls argument for the hardened steel bearings they use) . granted, the stainless steel bearing need to be kept greased to work well. furlex also provides a 'one turn' tack swivel for even better reefed shape.

another benefit of the furlex design is the that joint extrusions are held together with an aluminum tab that has two raised bosses to engage each extrusion, so no dissimiliar metals or chance for fasteners to back out. all in all they have done a good job to isolate dissimilar metals, or use similiar metals where possible

another benifit of the furlex is the plastic bushings that are lining the forestay the entire length without any vertical seams in them. good stuff.

I sound like a selden salesman here -

the harken cruising esp is your best value right now , if quality for $$ and basic general functions are your requirements. go with the furlex if you need the ultimate furler. umm, I do not have expirience with any other than the Harken, Schaefer, Hood, Goiot, Facnor, Profurl, Furlex and CDI brand furlers, so cant make recommendations outside those (I know reckman is reputed to make a good furler, as is bamar )

[Robbie.g]

In my experience , problems with most furlers are either poor installation, underspecified for the size/weight of the craft (i.e.buying the furler where the boat is at the bottom of the suitability scale, but there is a $ or two to be saved), or user error (i.e.furling the headsail whilst it's sheeted in, putting the furling line on the winch and grinding like hell).
I guess the spilt would be something like 60% / 25% / 15%, or a combination of all the above.
There are problems with most of the furlers on the market; but an understanding of these problems that are particular to each, can be addressed during installation, and/or training in use and of course MAINTENANCE!!! Miss any one of these and any furler can, and will be rooted sooner or later.
So if you do maintenance, buy a Schaefer; if you don't, buy a profurl and get it properly installed, with the correct top car position, this may require a pennant on the sail. But the sealed bearings etc will carry on working without your help long after the schaefer has seized cos you aint maintained it.
There's my 2 cents worth, hope it help

[osteoderm]

I have agonized over correct upper swivel position both before and after my installation, with pennants both aloft and alow to maintain proper positioning with the sail where I need it to be.
I think my problem may be with the length of halyard above the swivel: I left enough bare stay above the wrapstop puck (about 14") to be able to slide the foil/drum up if necessary for maintenance/inspection of the otherwise hidden turnbuckle and terminal alow. With the halyard exit aloft less an inch from the stay, and a foot of halyard to the swivel tang, the action of the puck is not enough to overcome the tendency to wrap. If I crank the halyard tension way up, I exchange the halyard wrap for vertical luff wrinkles and excessive effort at the furling line.
The Profurl manual goes on and on about correct upper swivel position relative to the wrapstop, but I can't recall anything at all regarding the position of the top of the foil to the halyard exit. Access to the turnbuckle and lower Norseman was higher on my priority list than squeezing every last inch of foil length onto the stay.
It seems to me that a looser double swivel goes a long way to solving this. The operation of the Profurl swivel is akin to pushing a double row of steel bearings around races packed full of overly thick grease... oh, wait, that's just what it is.
This week I'm planning to very grudgingly install a halyard restrainer aloft to alter the lead a few degrees in the hopes that this will help.

[Brian Duff]

yuri,
the extrusions should take up most of the stay, and you then will have to remove the extrusioin to torque tube (or drum on some proful) screws and slide the drum up the extrusions to get to the turnbuckle.

a good rule of thumb is that there should not be enough halyard exposed to get a half wrap around the extrusions, period. this normally means 3" or less from restrainer

with the profurl puck design, the puck can (and does) twist the cable so it must be close to the terminal to keep movement down.

[Brion Toss]

Originally Posted by osteoderm

I have agonized over correct upper swivel position both before and after my installation, with pennants both aloft and alow to maintain proper positioning with the sail where I need it to be.
I think my problem may be with the length of halyard above the swivel: I left enough bare stay above the wrapstop puck (about 14") to be able to slide the foil/drum up if necessary for maintenance/inspection of the otherwise hidden turnbuckle and terminal alow.

As Brian indicated, I believe you are in error about how to get at the turnbuckle; the foil only needs enough travel option to allow for max turnbuckle takeup, probably just 2 or 3 inches. And by the way, be sure to hitch a halyard onto the foil when you get ready to slide the drum up, so the foil doesn't come banging down, shearing off the tab on the bottom of the bottom foil bearing.

With the halyard exit aloft less an inch from the stay, and a foot of halyard to the swivel tang, the action of the puck is not enough to overcome the tendency to wrap. If I crank the halyard tension way up, I exchange the halyard wrap for vertical luff wrinkles and excessive effort at the furling line.

Really hard on the swivel and the sail, too.

The Profurl manual goes on and on about correct upper swivel position relative to the wrapstop, but I can't recall anything at all regarding the position of the top of the foil to the halyard exit. Access to the turnbuckle and lower Norseman was higher on my priority list than squeezing every last inch of foil length onto the stay.

You can get both.

It seems to me that a looser double swivel goes a long way to solving this. The operation of the Profurl swivel is akin to pushing a double row of steel bearings around races packed full of overly thick grease... oh, wait, that's just what it is.

In all fairness, those grease-packed bearings perform about as well as open races when the loads are high.

This week I'm planning to very grudgingly install a halyard restrainer aloft to alter the lead a few degrees in the hopes that this will help.

Don't do it! Get the DVH up where it belongs, and the foil top where it belongs.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[osteoderm]

All the above advice taken greatly to heart, but... I'm still missing something here. I understand needing only enough foil-relative-to-stay travel to get maximum turnbuckle take-up, but how do you adjust said turnbuckle when you can't get a wrench on the upper fitting? Is it intended that you only use the headstay turnbuckle to coarsely adjust length with the foil on the ground?
I sure don't like a halyard restrainer, believe me. It would be a temporary "solution" at best. My masthead is so tiny, the stay might as well be coming over the sheave with the halyard, they're that close together. I feel like the halyard would have to be two-blocked to eliminate the wrap. Hoisting, the halyard visibly bends around the puck (chafe chafe chafe)... Of course, once hoisted, the swivel tang, not the halyard, rests on the puck. I feel like the halyard lead needs to be shifted just a few degrees in any event.
Say Brian, think you can send me another foot of foil down with that Battslide? Hate to chop up a brand-new stay, but it sounds like that's really the best option, no?