nicopress standing rigging?

[oyster]

You're right, Brion doesn't recommend them for standing rigging. Looks like I'll be swaging or saving up for mechanicals. Best of all I won't have to worry the "bizarre", "insane", telephone pole", "monkey rigged", "insane" connotations which apparently go along with Nicopress fittings!

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
First, poor Larry Pardey is probably regretting mentioning Nico's as an option. He's an ace splicer, but has also seen lots of boats ó mostly in England ó with nicopressed rigs. And they can work there, where the climate is mild, and the water low-salt, but they tend to fail at sea.
Further, they are designed for 6x or 7x wire, and adapting them to 1x19, though doable, is tricky; it is possible to get something like 100% strength with them, but only for a while. Plus we see problems with collapsed thimbles, poor fit in turnbuckles. So really, not the best for anything but their original intended purpose, which is halyard wire.
As for the alternatives, if you go with swages I prefer rotary swages, if the machine is in spec and run right. Otherwise Hayn or Sta-Lok.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

I'm suprised!

I thought nicopress swages were supposed to retain 100% of the strength of the wire and more if you use two. Has anyone seen them fail? Plus there is less risk of crevise corrosion compared to other swages.

[Renoir]

The idea of using Nicropress fittings is to affix a wire which is around a thimble. It is the use of a thimble which degrades the ultimate strength of the end result. A thimble can collapse and the wire must have a very large thimble in order to approach the wire's maximum strength. with a swaged termination no thimble is necessary and maximum line strength is approached to the point of an effective 100% strength.

Good point. Thanks

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
Even large, and large-radius thimbles will leave you with other problems: there is, to my knowledge, no improvement in preventing crevice corrosion; the terminals are designed to approach 100% efficiency on 7x19 wire, but you will need two for anything like that on 1x19, and then you are into the tricky work of getting an even load on both sleeves; and no matter what, you still have a snaggy, ugly terminal that is no more efficient than a swage, and not a lot cheaper. You can certainly use them, but I see them as being the wrong tool for this job.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[ghetto_yachting]

I feel compelled to respond to this thread after 6 years because when searching for "nicopress" and "standing rigging" the first two links on google bring you here (the first one indirectly). I'm not an expert, but I believe the nicopress fitting may have gotten the short end of the stick. Yes, they are ugly, but I believe they have a place on inexpensive boats where the owner would like to save money by doing his or her own rigging.

I called nicopress and I talked to a guy who is a sailor and he said the fittings are perfectly suitable for standing rigging and that the fittings are guaranteed to exceed the rated strength of the wire when properly installed. He stated he has several friends who use the fittings on their standing rigging and that the fittings are also used structurally on aircraft. He also said you need to use the copper or stainless fittings (not aluminum of course), that the plating needs to be correct for the wire type and the crimps need to be checked with a gauge to make sure they are within specification.

In my personal experience I've seen plenty of boats with these fittings on standing rigging in marinas, mostly plastic classics from the 60s with wire that looks like it could be original. Masts are still standing.

And what about england where they supposedly use nicopress more often? Are the winds really lower? I don't know, but looking at a wind map there are plenty of areas with 16 - 22mph winds today in the UK, higher than the 10kts here on the San Francisco Bay. How about the salinity? The map I'm looking at shows the salinity around england is average, and below average for most of the US coast. (see here: http://www.coas.oregonstate.edu/imag...alinitymap.jpg)

So it seems if you have a nice boat and/or are having your rigging professionally made, than swaged is the way to go. If your boat is crusty, you want to do it yourself and you are strapped for cash, then nicopress may be your man. I do not believe using nicopress fittings is a safety issue if properly done.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert in any way, shape or form. I have never replaced rigging on any boat I have owned and I clearly have no idea what I am talking about.

[edzacko]

Hey Oyster,
I have used Norseman fittings for over 30 years with absolutely NO problems whatever. They are not that difficult to assemble but yes, it does help to practice a bit before you "go for it."

I installed roller furling back in 1998 and continued to use the Norseman fittings on the head stay and have never had anything come apart due to rotation.

Having said that--I did almost lose an eye a couple of years ago--while standing in a dinghy talking to someone one of his Sta Loks just went BANG and came within a hair of taking my eye. This fitting was on a hydraulic back stay and over time became unscrewed. It was just on its very last thread and I was "just there at that moment."

We reassembled the fitting and experimented a bit---what happened was that every time we pumped the hydraulic lever we could see the rod from the piston turning just a bit in the counter-clockwie direction and over time it produced just enough pressure on the fitting to gradually unscrew.

On this last re-rig I decided to "retire" the old Norseman fittings and try the Hayn Hi Mods. They are really easy to assemble. And, as I just discovered---really easy to disassemble and re-assemble.

My guess is that if you do a cost analysis of paying someone to build the swaged rig for you and the cost of "doing the mechanicals yourself" you might find it is not as expensive as you fear. Especially if you plan on keeping the boat for a long time. It is in the future re-rigs that you will save the money.
My recent re-rig cost 1500.00 us complete--buying all new Hi Mods and wire.

Good Luck
Ed Zacko