to swedge or sta loc?

[stevewrye@gmail.com]

Brion, Steve and Tracy from Hannah here. Yes we are still alive and back in the states again. Hannah was sold a 2 years ago to an Austrian couple in New Zealand because our kid Nolan wanted to go to high school instead of home schooling. I know how could we do such a thing! Well Nolan is off to bigger and better places than high school now and Tracy and I are tired of watching the grass grow so we ordered a new boat last March and it has just started to be built in France and will be completed June 2013.

OK so here is my question and it probably has been asked a million times here. The builder wants to use swedging for the rigging and here we are getting this incredible new style of boat www.voiliers-boreal.com . I loved the sta locs you did on my last two boats what's your advice? I am making many changes on the Boreal 44 because I can as it is a semi custom boat but somewhere I need to draw a line in how much I ask for and list is growing longer and more expensive. What's best, Brion? Just give me a hard answer I can take it.
If your down this way(Hood River) come visit.
Steve Wrye and Tracy Willett
Formerly of SV Hannah
Now back on a new "RC Louise" again.

[Stumble]

Dynex Duc rigging. Save the weight and the money. Plus you get more righting moment by decreasing weight aloft in the rig.

[Joe Henderson]

Dear Steve,

Your new yacht's builders may have factored-in a package from the mast builders that includes swaged fittings.

You can be no kinder to your wire standing rigging than specify StaLok fittings.

If you rush back to the future with the Dynex Dux route, insist on Dux with overbraid.

I think Brion has already posted somewhere on here about the imortality of the material !

Your new boat is worth every penny extra it will cost over just a bit of bare Dynex with some lanyards.

Regards,

Joe henderson.

[stevewrye@gmail.com]

Thanks Joe and Stumble,
Interesting indeed, A guy here in the Hood is building a 50 ft cat and mentioned he is using Dynex. I didn't take him serious and ignored his mentioning of material. See what happens when you get old and closed minded! I'm starting my reading on material and applications tomorrow and I will go over to the cat builder and talk Dynex. Brion and I talked some of using I think it was Spectra for safety lines back in 2007 before we left cruising, I did bring a lot of it with us and used it for many things. What is the difference between spectra and dynex? How does this Dynex hold up under intense tropical sun, we are tropical cruisers only too old for the high lats.
Thanks for your imput.

[Stumble]

Generally Dynex Dux is significantly stronger and more abrasion resistant than spectra, in addition it is more stable in UV than spectra is.

The amount of information available is pretty significant, but the expert in applying it to standing rigging is Collegio Marine that first popularized it for use in standing rigging. Last I heard they were suggesting a replacement interval of 8 years in the tropics for uncoated Duc, and even longer with the coated stuff. Just note that it isn't steel, and has its own design issues, specifically creep. Which means that instead of sizing for working load, it is sized for creep, which means you get a rig that is 1/7 the weight, and generally 2-4 times as strong in breaking strength.

[mitchwitt]

Steve.. are you a cruiser ? then you "do it yourself".. your yacht builder cares nothing whatsoever about what you might have to repair at sea once you have taken delivery.

StaLok terminals permit repairs in the field... Swages are faster and more cost effective for the yacht builder so no wonder they want to use swages.

If you specify Sta Lok then I would disassemble every one of them and inspect them before taking delivery.. I just would not trust anyone else in installing these on my boat but me.. cerainly not in a production - for profit situation.

Furthermore... it is not uncommon to have swages aloft and staloks at the deck...
for lower weight aloft and since the swage is actually upside down whereas, a swage a deck level is rightside up where water and salt will penetrate and be trapped. Many cruising boats have both -- swages aloft and StaLok on deck.

W/ regard to synthetic line for cruising yacht rigging.. synthetic line is the realm of the
racer or weekend yachter who likes to support the marine industry with constant $$$ for repairs and refits.. Cruisers stay with simple, easy to find, low tech, low cost, long life ie: stainless steel rigging.
Good Luck
Mitch Witt
SAMS ams

[Stumble]

Mitch,

What could be easier or faster to repair down island than a splice?

When I changed the rig on my boat it was actually cheaper to go with Dynex than rod, and comparable to wire. At whatever point I need to replace the line, it will cost a fraction of new cost, since the fittings are reusable.

[stevewrye@gmail.com]

Interesting stuff! I'll keep studying dynex, I have Colin Speedie as our consultant and will speak with him some on the subject also. It's great to have him on board as France is a long way away and he works well with Boreal, he speaks boat French.

I like the sticking with sta Locs, it is something I've done before and enjoyed it. I have 16 months before I have worry about doing rigging, just want to get as much out of the way as possible early. So I have time for more study on the subject.

Mitch,
Boreal is a pretty great company, I spent a week last March doing sea trials and hanging out at the shop. I have never been so impressed with a company, its owners and workers as I was with them and that includes businesses I've owned. They welcome you at any time during the building process to come and inspect and learn. You want to know how to repair aluminum they can show you how to do repair welding. After sea trials they expect you to sail and sail hard it is part of the process of buying or signing a contract. New owners pick up their boat do a month of sea trials and are off mostly to the highest of lats. Some go off to do the NW passage, some the Horns. I'm not sure why the swedging on their part, they do their own rigging. But they are only interested in giving you the product you want as long as you do not over compromise their strong product. They listen to me and I listen to them, it has been a great relationship so far. I can't say that for many boat building companies.

[Robbie.g]

There are choices in rigging; some are done by the owner, some buy the boat builder and some by the rigger. Much of the time each is trying to make their best guess as to the suitability of each of the objects/systems that will be installed based on their own understanding of the end user.
In the rigging sense; the style of rigging, or re-rigging, depends largely on the owner. sometimes it's cost, but sometimes it's on the level of interaction the owner wants with the rigging, and/or the actual mechanics of sailing.
If an owner enjoys this ongoing rigging interaction, and would appreicate the gains possible from dux type fiber rigging, then that should be on the table as an option. There are also owners who see their rigging as a thing that holds up the mast, that periodicly the insurance company wants checked and can sometimes mean another bill. Would this type of owner be interested in checking aloft for chafe, tweeking the rig as the stays creep, etc.. possibly not; maybe ss1x19 and swages are more suitable.
Just throwing it out there.....

[stevewrye@gmail.com]

Nicely said Robbie, The end user has to be confident in their rigging in the end. I can imagine when you use Dynex for the first time the first few months are a bit nerve racking until it is tested in a good blow.
What do the major offshore insurance companies say about Dynex? How does it work with furlers? I would think it would be hard to check for wear under the foils.