Help adding Running Back Stays

[mrybas]

Hi,
I have a Tashiba 40 (aka Baba aka Panda) with a double spreader cutter rig. It has permanently rigged aft led intermediates to support the staysail. I would like to replace these with running backstays to allow the boom to swing out farther while sailing down wind. I have a rough idea of what the set-up should look like, but not sure of the specific parts needed to put the package together.
At the deck there are already eyes installed behind the aft end of the jib track that should be a secure location to terminate the running back stays on the deck end. At the mast end, I was hoping to use the current termination of the existing aft-intermediates. The current termination at the mast is a sort of 'T' shaped fitting. Can I keep this fitting, and cut the shroud and use a norseman/stalock fitting of some sort to attach to the new running backstay?
Thanks,
Mike
SV 'Hartley'

[cmm]

I'm interested in what you're doing, but don't have enough knowledge to give real advice.

Nonetheless, I am wondering whether the aft end of a jib track is back far enough to terminate runners, unless you're taking them to blocks further back and then bringing them forward to terminate at the jib track?

[Ian McColgin]

Nice thought making the boat more suitable for running. Sounds like the aft intermediates were really designed with lazy day sailors in mind.

Firstly I'd go over with a rigger whether you can make two points of attachment such that you can leave the runners set up closer to the original landing for the aft intermediates and thus be able to work to windward without shifting stays all the time.

Having had runners - and I liked them well enough - I know that it's one more thing to do tacking and if you can eliminate that, all the better. However, the strength needed for the stay when it lands further forward is considerably greater than what's needed for a true runner that lands back by the cockpit and the idea, while do-able, might not be cost effective.

I don't like highfield levers. If you land the runners to a fibre tackle it's well to spread the strain. If 3:1, have a block with becket at the end of the wire. Run the fibre part around a block on the deck, up over the block on the wire, back to a block further aft on the deck, and thence fair lead to a sheet winch. This spreads the load but you still want the eyes for those two blocks to be properly bolted and backed. It's nice to make the wire long enough that that block can just clear the turnbuckles of the aft lowers so the stay can lay there when not in use. Have a clip on the stay for long runs.

The mast fastening could be a problem. From your description I didn't get whether this was a T with the hole for the stay's pin at the bottom or some sort of inverted T, but more likely the former. Leading at a noticable angle away from the bottom of the T could put some wrack on the fastenings and if the length of unsupported tang is long enough could cause the lower part of the T to bend. I'd give serious thought to a V shape that you can aim properly but that's also more able to withstand an unfair strain.

G'luck

[Brion Toss]

Hello,
First, at the mast end, you can get metal "loops" that socket into internal tangs, and to which you can attach fiber runner pendants. In your case, the change in angle will probably be too great, and you should count on installing different tangs, internal or external.
The eyes at the end of the track are more likely to be scaled for spinnaker sheets than for runners, but I'd need to see them to be sure. If they aren't up to the job, the trick is to land stout padeyes on deck, positioned to give an effective angle to the mast, yet not to interfere with deck traffic, and to have a good lead to the primary winches. This last bit is important, as we never, ever use block-and-tackle on runners; instead we splice a fat tail onto an HM pendant, and lead the tail through a deck block to the winch. The weather winch is always open, and in a storm, with the jib furled, both winches are open. Much more power, to tighten the forestays'l luff, and much, much faster overhauling. Also no blocks bashing around on the leeward side.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
PS,
Ian, and anyone else out East, would you mind starting a thread on conditions out there?

[Ian McColgin]

I've no doubt that Brion's advocacy of a straight run to a sheet winch makes more sense than my 3:1 system ever did. The one advantage of the block system is that if the crew is brisk and snugs the runner just as the boat's in the wind's eye, it may be tight enough right there. For a traditional lower stressed rig. The straight wire with a soft tail is probably more suitable in every way today.