Ascender and Line Wear

[John Stone]

A while back I posted a question about incorporating a halyard jig in place of halyard winches on my boat. Thanks to all for lots of good input. It seems like a reasonable solution might be to use an ascender on a block and tackle to gain final tension on the halyard. The tackle would be secured to a pad-eye or eyebolt in the deck near the mast. I would hand-over-hand the halyard until I needed mechanical advantage and then attach the ascender and block and tackle for the last part of the hoist.

I looked at some ascenders at a local climbing store. They have some fairly aggressive teeth. What kind of wear and tear will these kind of ascenders cause to your standard double braid dacron line often used for halyards? Thinking about how this would work, it seems the ascender will be used routinely in the same general area on the halyard as it is applied during the last few feet of hoist.

Would routinely using an ascender on double braid cause excessive wear? What about wear on other kinds of line used for halyards, e.g. spectra, etc.

I assume the ascenders could also be used for climbing the halyards as well (with appropriate safety lines). Is there a brand and model that would work best for this kind of application?

If the wear is excessive I think I could still use the same set up with a couple of dedicated lines for prusiks that would be attached to the block and tackle.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, suggestions, and insights.

[Ian McColgin]

I have not seen appreciable wear from an ascender used for climbing. Whatever wear there is is spread all over and not concentrated in one place. Used for clapping on a tackle, on the other hand, produces repeated strain in about the same place. Also, when climbing the load is just the weight of the climber and is not loaded in one place for very long. If I recall the other discussion, you had in mind a way of getting the ascender off once the halyard was up and tensioned but I did not really understand it. If you had to leave the ascender in place, I think that would be very hard on the halyard.

You can get 3:1 by having a block spliced to the end of the halyard such that when the sail is struck the shackle at the peak is easily reached and the block is just shy of going through the jib halyard sheave or block. That block has the rest of the halyard length spliced to the blocks becket and passes up through the block before going down. When the jib is nearly up, hold the halyard with one hand and pull out the bight that goes from the becket around the block and down. Plop the bight over an open turning block on the mast and then finish tensioning the sail.

G'luck

[John Stone]

Ian,
Thanks for the quick reply.

As you pointed out, I would not leave the ascender/tackle rigged to take the strain indefinitely. Once I clapped it on, and tensioned the halyard, I would secure the halyard around the belaying pin (on the mast) and remove the ascender. I could use the ascender and tackle arrangement for any of the halyards -- main, staysail, jib -- as necessary. My concern is would the teeth on the ascender chew through the halyard over time due to repeated use in the same general area?

Have I overlooked something?

Thanks.

[Ian McColgin]

I think a lot will depend on the ascender design. Cam cleats and rope clutches in many applications grab the line in the same place with no unusual wear. If you look around, perhaps there's an ascender that's not too sharp or aggressive.

Alternative is to check out the half dozen or so nipper hitches that have served this job in the past and see if there's one you really like.

[John Stone]

True enough. Well perhaps one of the forum readers has some experience with a particular ascender they like. I spent a little time the other day experimenting with a prusik connected to a block and tackle on a line rigged like a halyard in my boat shed. It grips plenty tight but is difficult to rig and operate one handed. But, I believe I could make it work with practice. The real question is how well will it work on a pitching deck. Of course, cranking on a halyard winch in rough water can get interesting too. Simplicity is great until it makes your life more difficult without some corresponding advantage. But, I digress.

[knuterikt]

Spinlock has got jammer that can be put over a rope with a strop.

http://www.spinlockusa.com/webcam/ja...ed-line-8-10mm

[Ian McColgin]

I can’t see high priced solutions where modified older ways work better.

There are variation on the traditional way to attach a nipper, which is the light line that temporarily binds the line taking your load, traditionally an anchor, to the line running around the windlass. All of them amount to variations on round hitches and can be found in Leaver, Ashley and other sources. Given that you really just want to hang the top block of a trimming tackle to the halyard some point conveniently above the halyard’s cleat, I would use what’s more like a quick salvagee. (I hope I am using the right term here and spelling it correctly. Brion will fix this if I'm wrong.)

Basically the upper block has to it’s top a strop (flat works better than round rope for this, looped through with both ends free and about equal length. When the halyard’s about hand tight, belay it, pick up the block and just salvagee the strop ends - really just each end spiraling up the halyard in opposing directions. After maybe three or four complete turns - experiment will tell you what’s needed - just secure the ends with nothing more than the bottom half of a surgeon’s knot, take your strain through the tackle, re do the halyard’s belay and then take the thing off.

In short, easier and faster to rig and then unrig than a prussic and just fine for the purpose. Maybe a nano-second slower than clapping on an ascender but the strop is soft, dependable, won’t rust, and is cheap.

[John Stone]

Thanks Ian. That makes sense. I will test it and see how it works. I am all about simple solutions.

[benz]

Hi John,

My favorite ascenders are the Petzl brand--the ones with aggressive teeth. Those teeth are very useful when the rope is wet or slippery, as they help the cam get it's initial grip. But the teeth don't bear the load--the cam does (I've seen petzls with the teeth worn entirely off by use work just fine on dry ropes) The petzls are also my favorite brand for climbing the mast--easy to use one-handed, and safe (it's hard to pop them off the rope accidentally. There are other sorts of ascenders on the market with ridges on the cam instead of teeth, but they have to be assenbled around the rope--no one-hand operation.
My running backstays (you'll remember mine) are held tight by a camcleat, and the line didn't show significant wear in the vicinity after all the use they had, so I'd guess that if you used an ascender on a tackle just long enough to heave the halyard tight it should be fine. No reason why you can't clap on futher up or down from time to time, just for variety.

[John Stone]

Thanks Ben. Good gouge. I should have paid more attention . . . .

A couple of ascenders would be a good thing to have on the boat anyway. Petzl it is.

Thanks again.