Why NOT buy a Sailrite Sewing Machine?

[NickfromWI]

Does anyone here know anything about the Sailritre sewing machines? I went to http://secure.sailrite.com/itemdesc....00589A&eq=&Tp= to see all the GREAT things about the machine....now, the question I post to you.

The website won't tell me the bad things about it. Can anyone here think of a reason NOT to buy the machine? Have you used one? Do you own one?

love
nick

[JMHawkins]

I own one (LSZ-1). I've only used it for canvas work (that is, sunbrella) and not sails, but I really like it and it was a dramatic improvment over using my wife's Bernina (I kept breaking the Bernina, and figured that a couple more repair bills and I'd have paid for the LSZ anyway).

The bad - it seems really easy to get out of tune with the thread tension. Now, I have to qualify that comment with "it might be operator error." I'm no pro (at least not yet). But that's the biggest challenge I have. Once I get the thread tension right, I make great progress and feel very happy about the result. On my sail cover - you can pretty much see where I switched over from the Bernina to the Sailrite

[Ian McColgin]

When I worked for a canvass maker and a bit in a sail loft, I did not see that SailRites had any greater problem with tension adjustment than other machines. Any industrial strength machine - SailRite being about the lightest such - demands a more exacting set up because the stitches are that much more precise. Used to drive me nuts when I changed threads and had to re-establish the tensions.

For what it's worth, two different sailmaker friends of mine have chosen to keep their SailRites as the unit they took aboard for circumnavigations. Each sold his other machines.

I've modified my Singer - hand crank and all that - but that's because I got an incredible deal on the unit in the first place and went through a hellacious learning curve learning how to get it back in tune from years of abuse and neglect. I'm seriously cheap and would rather struggle a bit than pay dollar$. If you're buying new, I don't think you can beat SailRite.

G'luck

[Essington]

I managed a commercial sewing shop for quite a few years, and have done both commercial sewing, and machine repair.

So, to answer your question, I need to ask you:
1) which sailrite you planned to purchase, and
2) what you were planning to do with it.

If you are just working on a few of your own projects and need something heavier than your wifes bernina, then It will probably suffice. The sailrite machines look like very sturdy self contained pieces of equipment. They should serve well for light duty work.

If however you are planning on doing production work, or building covers, the sailrite machines (LS and LSZ anyway) MAY fall a little short of your expectations.

I Haven't actually ever worked on one of these machines, so I am just judging from the pictures I've seen on their website.

The first thing that I notice about the sailrite machines is their feed system. Their "UltraFeed" system. This is just a modified drop feed system. This is the same way that basic home machines feed material. At the top of the needle stroke, the feed dogs grab the bottom (and in the case of the ultrafeed, the top) of the material and pull it forward one stitch length. This is fine for really thin materials of only a couple layers, but when you start working on anything heavier, you will want a better feed system.

Most commercial machines heavy enough to work covers and multiple layers of sailcloth are of the compound feed (or walking foot) variety. These machines have a foot that looks similar to the Ultrafeed (an outter foot, and an inner foot), the difference is that the center foot comes down on the material and the center feed dog comes up against the bottom of the material, at the same time that the needle plunges through all layers. Now that the whole mess is clamped (by the center foot an feed dog) and pinned (by the needle) the whole thing is dragged back. Then the outside feed dogs, and foot clamp the material, while the inside ones move to get another grip on the material. The whole process looks like the foot is walking down the material.

sailrite offers commercial grade machines, with compound feed, in both straight and zig-zag models, but they are something on the order of 3 times as expensive as their ultrafeed cousins. And I see no reason that the sailrite models would be any less reliable then their juki, consew, nakajima, or singer brethren.

Now, if you think you need the heavier machine, but aren't interested in spending the $$ for a brand new commercial machine, and you know someone in the textile business, they may be able to turn you onto somewhere that is getting rid of, or upgrading old commercial machines. Commercial Sewing machine shops usually carry used machines as well. You would probably be able to pick up a used commercial machine for less than the new price of one of the ultrafeed sailrites.

Our shop used to buy both new and used machines. Typically the used machines have been running for a minimum of 8 hours a day for decades, and they still worked flawlessly. Our production lead worked on a 20 year old Nakajima, and wouldn't trade up to a new machine for anything.

I would, however, be a little wary of buying a machine from a private individual. In a sewing factory, there is a set routine for the care and maintenance of the machines, and if they misbehave for any reason, they are fixed immediately. The seamstress are generally paid by the piece, so they care for the machines as if their livelihood depends upon it. Whereas someone with a commercial machine in their home may not be aware of the normal maintenance procedures, nor would they know how to keep the machine in adjustment. So, even though a private sale may appear to be a really good deal, it may take more money after the fact to get the machine tuned up and sewing properly.

As for binding, piping, and folding attachments, The ultrafeed bases have the same mounting holes that all commercial machines have, so you could easily start with an ultrafeed, and then upgrade to a commercial machine later, and not have to repurchase all of the attachments that you use.

[Brent B]

The Sailrite folks have a loyal following, perhaps because of their excellent service reputation.

Meanwhile, none of their machines are industrial machines that will stand up to serious production. As mentioned before, their heaviest mechines are known as "commercial" machines in the trade, intended for small tailoring shops. They are priced somewhat higher than you can find similar models from other vendors.

The LS-1 and LZ-1 are really small machines. They look like toys in comparison to serious machines.

Your best buys are good used industrial machines. At Benson Sails we have around 10 machines, with 5 used regularly, and the others backups. The oldest are Singer 107 and 143 zig-zag machines that date from 1939 to 1947. They run great and parts are still available. For straight-stitching on canvas we have compound feed machines (walking-foot + walking-needle), Consew 226 and Singer 211. All use 1/2 hp clutch motors.

Look for industrial sewing machine dealers in your area, or Google "industrial sewing machines" to find dealers. Good buys also come up on ebay, though many machines have overblown descriptions..."industrial strength", etc. You need to have a specific models in mind. Shipping is expensive, however.

Brent

[NickfromWI]

Wow! Thanks for the great responses!

I went ahead and bought the Deluxe model of the LSZ-1. I think it will be just fine for what I needed. I was looking for something that can do light work, and maybe 30% of the time, I will be sewing heavy stuff (sewing bar tacks of my climbing harness to attach gear loops, etc).

I have had it for about a week now and am quite pleased. I can sew regular home thread on it, or heavy v-92 or v-138 if I'd like. One slight prob is I can't find anywhere in Los Angeles that sells that heavy stuff and now might have to place ANOTHER order to buy some.

The one problem I have noticed is that if I sew many layers of fabric together, the layers shift. I'll get to the end of the seam and have a 1" overlap. Maybe I have to start pinning the layers together?

I think you were right Brent. I really got the impression that I was buying from a super reputable company that was going to help me have an enjoyable experience with my machine. So far, I'm glad I bought the machine.

love
nick

[Essington]

Originally Posted by NickfromWI

I have had it for about a week now and am quite pleased. I can sew regular home thread on it, or heavy v-92 or v-138 if I'd like. One slight prob is I can't find anywhere in Los Angeles that sells that heavy stuff and now might have to place ANOTHER order to buy some.

First check upholstery shops, they are likely to have something that heavy. However If you've got to order, I think Astrup has two distribution centers in California.

The next trick is deciding what kind of v-92 or v-138 thread to use! Selecting the best thread for the job is nearly as complicated as picking out the sewing machine. Nylon really makes for bombproof seams since it is much more elastic than polyester, but it doesn't survive so well in the sun. I personally like Tenara thread. It is a Gore product that is specifically designed to survive outside. It doesn't deteriorate in the elements the way nylon and polyester do, but it is like 10 times as expensive.

Originally Posted by NickfromWI

The one problem I have noticed is that if I sew many layers of fabric together, the layers shift. I'll get to the end of the seam and have a 1" overlap. Maybe I have to start pinning the layers together?

That is a bit of a "feature" of the drop feed machine, and also a bit of operator input.
I worked in a production sewing shop for many years, and the only thing we ever used pins for was to hold the loose end of a webbing roll.
If you have days to pin and unpin things, then that is certainly one route to go, but the easier way is to add timing marks along long runs (these are small slits or Vs cut into the material) then as you are sewing along, you can see which layers have managed to sneak ahead of the others, then by applying a bit of extra tension (lightly hold back the top or bottom layer with your hand) to those layers, you can make everything match up by the time you get to the end.

good luck with the new machine

-jason

[Rosieis1]

I own an Ultrafeed from Sailrite and love it. The support is more than wonderful!
Visit: http://www.sailrite.com/Sailrite-Ult...Sewing-Machine and see the videos of the machine working.

[Rosieis1]

Originally Posted by NickfromWI

The one problem I have noticed is that if I sew many layers of fabric together, the layers shift. I'll get to the end of the seam and have a 1" overlap. Maybe I have to start pinning the layers together?
love
nick

Try using seamstick from Sailrite. This is a double sided tape that goes between the layers of fabric and hold them while you sew. For Sunbrella use 3/8" Rubber Based for Canvas Visit: http://www.sailrite.com/seamstick-rubber-based and your job will be much easier. Most canvas shops use this stuff.

[Rosieis1]

Originally Posted by Brent B

The Sailrite folks have a loyal following, perhaps because of their excellent service reputation.

Meanwhile, none of their machines are industrial machines that will stand up to serious production. As mentioned before, their heaviest mechines are known as "commercial" machines in the trade, intended for small tailoring shops. They are priced somewhat higher than you can find similar models from other vendors.

Brent

If you are opening a loft or canvas shop maybe you should get a commercial size machine. They cost a lot more are heavy and large. However if you are looking for a portable heavy duty walking foot machine "that works" you should not even think of buying from anyone but Sailrite. The folks at Sailrite put tons of work into the machines in Indiana USA. Whereas the clones, from other vendors, do nothing but ship the machines from the Chinese factories they are made in without doing any of the work on them that makes them function to Sailrite's specifications.
Proud owner of pattented Ultrafeed LSZ-1 from Sailrite.