Solent Stay
 

Greetings, to everyone on this forum.
I hope I'm not being too foreword by making a post like this, my first time here!
Anyway, here goes.....
I discovered this forum while researching the idea of installing a Solent Stay on my 1978 Catalina 27.
I bought the boat 3 seasons ago, and along with a headsail-furler set up with a 150% laminate genoa, the boat came with what appears to be *100% and *130% hank-on jibs. So, of course, I would love to get one or both of them into action.
I sail almost exclusively singlehand so the furler is a must. Also, I really don't want to deal with the expense of installing luff tape on the jibs, and, with constantly loading and unloading them from the foil. Therefore the Solent Stay seems ideal, if it works.
I'm a pretty accomplished mechanic so I feel comfortable installing the deck fittings, below deck reinforcement stays, and mast fittings, necessary.
Also, I plan on installing the Solent Stay close to, and parallel to the existing forestay. Say, within 12" or even less. The upshot is, what I'm hoping is that this will allow me to fly at least the "100%", (without Mods?)
It is probably useful to know that, besides the toe rail genoa track, one of the P.O.s installed additional tracks next to the coach windows behind the shrouds and also at the fore end of the cockpit combing. Oh, and also, if you don't know, a Catalina 27's mast is a tree trunk! So, I'm hoping that all this works to my advantage!
Anyway, I guess the question is: Will the stay itself work? Will the sail/sails work as I am envisioning? Does anyone have any reservations/advise?

*(The sizes don't really match up to the sizes listed on C27 sail guides. The dimensions of the foots are shorter than listed).
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Joel H.

Hi Joel,
You'll need a halyard, of course--perhaps's there's one rigged for a spinnaker? You'll want to make sure the stay doesn't interfere with the furler arrangement or with flying the jib--it will make tacking the jib difficult, unless you make the new stay removeable, as with a Highfield lever. It seems like if a furler is a MUST for singlehanding, you'll only use the hank-on sails when with other people on board. Do you sail accompanied often enough to warrant the expense and trouble?

Thanks for the reply Benz.


The stay will def. be removable. I'm looking into building a tensioner using a cascade of low friction rings, (Antal), and then lead aft. The stay itself will be Dyneema and will be eye spliced to the eye of the mast fitting, (Gibbs"T-Ball" with eye). I'm also considering using a low friction ring as a halyard block also spliced to the eye of the mast fitting and down to a conventional turning block and lead aft. Hopefully, this will allow for quickly moving a pre-hanked sail into position, attaching the stay and tack, and returning to the cockpit, where it can then be tensioned and raised, all with the limited help of a autohelm or crewmember.
That's the thinking so far. The only real expense will be if I have to get my jib re-cut to make it work. That is the real question!
Cheers,
Joel H.

Making sure the jib will fit before rigging up a whole setup doesn't seem too hard. Lash the tack to the deck, then run the head aloft with the jib halyard and see where it ends up. Choose a calm day.
I'd suggest tensioning the Dyneema forestay from the foredeck, if you have to go up there anyway, rather than leading aft--it'll only take a moment to pull it all tight, and there'll be one less line back there. I use cascading Antal rings for my running backstays, and they work fine.

Great info Benz. Vary encouraging, thank you. I think you have a good point about tensioning at the stay. I'm wondering about cleating that setup. Also do you have any pics showing your backstay cascade?
Thx,
Joel H.

Good point about testing the fit of the jib. I just need to find a day when it isn't blowing or freezing cold. Not a easy thing this time of year, here in Chicago.:D

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I just had another brainstorm.
This may be proof that I have to much fee time, (and am quite possibly crazy!), but:
See photos.

What if the "Antal Ring cascade tensioner" were inverted, so that the final purchase, (the bitter end), of the tensioner was directed up, and fitted with a snap shackle, to became the tack-point of the jib?
Therefore, the loose tensioner and stay can be pulled foreword and, with another snap shackle, attached to the deck mounted padeye. Then the jib tack can be snap shackled to the end/tack-point of the system and hanked on the stay, (obviously this could also be done ahead of time). Finally, when the jib is raised and luff tensioned, the pull on the tack will tension the Solent Stay!!!
Admittedly the power and length of the cascade might have to be experimented with to get the proper ratio of stay tension to luff tension, as well as tack height above deck.
OR:
Also what might be possible would be to install some kind of stopper in the last line of the tensioner(as shown),to limit stay tension and allow for separate luff tensioning.
So, what do you think?
Joel Heberlein

P.S. If you feel the urge to giggle I won't hold it against you.:)
P.S. If it hasn't been done before, and it works, I'm claiming and naming it. :D

A comment from someone on Sailnet made me realize that the tensioner stop, to limit stay tension, and allow further luff tensioning, would actually need to be stop(s). In that there would need to be one in every link of the cascade in order to truly lock it.

People on Sailnet have pretty much worked me through the cons of my little halyard/tensioner scheme. I'll still use a cascade but it will cleat off at deck level, and the sail tack will attach to the deck fitting also.

Oh well, I thought it looked great on paper!

Hi Joel,

Good drawings--very clear, and good ideas, even if the details are iffy. My staysail sets in a similar fashion, without any cascading tension, though. The Vectran halyard goes from the head of the sail, through a block aloft, then back down through the sail hanks to a turning block shackled to the stem. There is a becket on the block to which the tack is attached, so the sail is hoisted by pulling upwards on the halyard with feet planted firmly on deck. When tensioned (either by hand or with a turn around the rope drum of the windlass for extra tightness), the halyard becomes a sort of forestay for the sail. Thus the forestay's only use is to hold up the mast, and when dousing the staysail, I unshackle the turning block and the whole circus stows out of the way by the mast, leaving the foredeck free for anchoring or whatever. I find it a lovely system, very quick to set up and stow, without having to hank on and off, since the hanks stay permanently on.

Well, unfortunately a number of knowledgeable people on Sailnet are telling me, (and I'm summarizing here), that even a Solent Stay, without a running backstay, will not produce a proper sail shape ("luff sag") due to the reduced stay tension caused by the load sharing between the 2 foreword stays being balanced by only a single OEM backstay.
So, I'm going to sit on it a while, till I gather more opinions.
I'm hoping you and other people here might be able to comment on that.
Thx,
Joel H.

P.S. I do think my design would be slick, if it worked.:D

You only need a bar-tight luff on the jib when pointing as high as possible. In that scenario, you'd likely be using the jib on the furler, rather than a bigger foresail on a Solent. If the wind was light enough that the bigger foresail was appropriate for pointing, then the luff wouldn't sag that much, due to less pressure on it. When off the wind a little, the advantages of the larger sails would be worth the trouble, I think.
You should really freak out the Sailnet people by suggesting the addition of a bowsprit, just for fun.

LOL...........
RE; Bowsprit,
That's the funny thing, I did mention a bowsprit, so I could be able to fly the gennaker I have, on a code furler. I was told that it was unnecessary and I should keep it simple and just fly a 150% on my head sail furler, which I already am. Then, when I talk about a Solent Stay to be able to fly my hank-on 110% and my hank-on 130%. I'm told it is unnecessary and to keep it simple, and just fit the 130% to my head sail furler and live with that.

I probably should describe my current sail plan. This is how things are set up since I bought the boat three years ago.
I have a heavy duty mainsail, the only headsail that is setup for the furler unit is a sweet tri-radial laminate 150% (so of course, my thinking is that, I would like to keep that in the arsenal).
Then in the "loft", so to speak, I have a like new Gennaker, a decent hank-on 110%, and a similarly decent hank-on 130%.
So, if the Solent Stay isn't really the best to use for close to the wind work with the 110%, I guess it would only be a help downwind with the 130% and the 150% wing to wing?

If your biggest jib is already on the furler, then the solent probably isn't practical, unless you wanted to put a tiny jib on for nasty weather, Your best bet is probably to retro-fit the other two sails to go into the furler foil and bend them on when there's bigger wind in the forecast than you want to fly a 150% in. It's good to take sails in and out of furler foils from time to time: makes sure everythings running smooth and gives you a chance to lube up. If you want lots of sail options, perhaps you should look at a cutter or ketch for your next boat.

Thanks Benz.
Good advise. Mod-ing my sails for the furler sounds like the right approach to me now, also. I think I'll start with the 110.
Thanks for taking the time to help me through this. I'll shoot an update here now and then.
Cheers,
Joel H.