My first double braided eye splice - what am I doing wrong?
 

I am trying to do a double braided eye spice with 1/4" double braid and a "small" Splicing Wand (labeled as being for 3/16" - 3/8" rope). I am following Brion's video for this splice, which seems quite clear.

I mark the cover, pull the core, mark the core, and insert the Wand 5 marks from the core exist. I am able to get the Wand about 2" into the rope (between the cover and core) but no further. I am collapsing the cover as much as possible (for maximum cover diameter) but it seems that the Wand is simply too thick for the task. The cover (containing Wand and core) is rock-hard and will not get any larger in diameter with collapsing / scrunching.

My Wand is 0.19" in diameter. The outer diameter of the entire rope (under tension) is 0.25", the core diameter (under tension) is about 0.14", the outer diameter of the collapsed / scrunched cover is 0.35". Do all these numbers seem reasonable? What am I doing wrong? :-(

Thanks!

- Axel

Alternate to Splicing braided line
 

My condolences, I've tried the same thing with proper tools and although I did not have a video I did research the procedure and had diagrams. I decided it was impossible and did NOT to use the so called prescribed method and came up with my own.

Example: Roller furling line.. I wanted a tapered line that breaks to smaller dia line in two places. First splice: I pulled the cover back exposing about 24" of core from the largest OD line, cut the core, inserted the entire diameter of line for the smaller line, pulled the larger cover down and sewed the cover down in mulitple locations then using waxed whipping twine I whipped the area of the splice about 1.5" long area. used this same procedure for the next size reduction. Been working without problems for 2+ years.
Capt Mitch Witt

It should be easy...
 

Hi,
Sorry things are difficult; that Wand is supposed to make splicing easier, not harder. So I'm glad you wrote in, instead of forcing things further.
First, what is the rope, that is, who makes it and what model. For instance, New England Sta-Set. Some ropes require different splices, including ones where you don't enter the tool into the cover as you are describing.
Next, is this new rope? I mean utterly, brand new. Especially when you are learning, even a slightly toughened rope will be a bear.
Next, in the diameter you describe, 1/4" can be tight, even in the proper rope, and we note this in the catalog. If it is, we'll be happy to trade you for a Micro Wand. You could also just send me a sample of the rope you are splicing, so I can pass judgement on its spliceability. In any event, I want you to have a non-traumatic time with this Art. Be in touch.
As for that tapered furler line, what's described could work nicely, but I'd be more likely to remove the core from the first few feet of the line, to take up less space on the drum, then transition to the cored section, and then maybe to an end-to-end-spliced connection to a larger line. Should be a much easier splice...
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

Thanks!
 

Thanks for the response Brion.

The rope is brand new 1/4" double braid that I got off a spool at a West Marine in Providence RI. I have no idea the manufacturer - it seems fairly generic.

Thanks for the offer to look at the rope :-) I just put the piece of rope I was working on into the post to you. Let me know if you are able to make progress with a small Wand.

I'm just getting into spicing and knotting, so its certainly possible I'm doing something wrong.

- Axel

Interestingly enough, I have a similar problem with Marlow 8mm line. It is brand new, and I think it may be impossible to work an eye into it. I have done eyes before, in StaSet, in 5/16", which I think is about the same size, but this Marlow 8mm is difficult. I would say that it has a "hard" lay, almost like the climbing lines I have seen in REI.

I am in Europe, where the line seems to be much more tightly put together than in the US (where I am from), and was wondering if there are any tricks associated with dealing with this sort of line. I don't think there is enough space in the cover to stuff the core back into it.

Thanks in advance for any help

Some of the new high tech double braids take a completely different splice than the old. I'm sure some one will be around to confirm


Jake

rope
 

Hi there,
Just got the sample of 1/4" Sta-Set. It is, as advertised, new and in fine condition. And there is no way I can splice it with a small Wand. It was even hard to bury the core using the Micro size,and I am not looking forward to running it home. Will keep you posted. Meanwhile I will be in touch with New England, to see if they are intentionally sending out unspliceable line, or if the machines are just wandering a bit.
As for the Marlow, my offer of checking it stands; send in a short piece. Or at least send a photo -- I can tell from the tracers what the rope is, and thus what the splice should be. As noted above, you might have an HM line, which takes a very different splice.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

Thanks!
 

Thanks for the confirmation, Brion.

As it turns out, I am in Europe like rxc. I was in the US a month ago and picked up the splicing materials to start experimenting. All I got for double braid was the 1/4" I sent you and some similarly-sized Sta-Set X. I'd love to hear any guidance about the other splices I might use for these ropes with the too-tight covers.

Glad I also grabbed some 3-strand, which so far is splicing fine ;-)

Jake I think you are jumping to a conclution..
Your link is to a product called "Marlow: MGP Nomex Cover Only", this is a cover to be used on single braid dyneema - wouldn't splice that.

Marlow ropes is a rope manufacturer in UK with a large selection of products.
http://www.marlowropes.com/

Update
 

Hi again,
I just tried splicing some 1/4" Sta-Set from a spool here in the shop, using a small Wand. Piece of cake. Clearly, the sample I'd gotten for this thread was wound way tight. Haven't been in touch with New England yet, but it's on my list of to-do's.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

My bad I posted the wrong link, it was a product that they had that was recommended for halyards I considered using and it had different process for the cover.

Jake

Imagine my surprise when I found the same thing with my new 600 ft roll of 1/4" Sta-Set.

The story is very similar; I could not fit a fid with a core into the jacket with the other core present, when making the official New England Double Braid eye splice, no matter how much I tried to expand the cover. I don't have a Micro or Small wand, just some fids. I really like the design of the wands - a very clever design, but none here.

I ended up using a length of thin iron wire commonly known as mechanics wire. It is probably about 16/18 gauge wire. I cut a length of wire about 2 1/2 feet long and folded it in half back onto itself. I used pliers to make the bend fairly sharp. I used this wire loop as a threader. (Think - threading a needle) I pushed the folded end of the wire loop into the cover at the core exit point and pushed it out of the cover at the splice crossover point. I fanned the end of the core and slid it into the "eye" of the wire loop with about 1/2 of the fan sticking out the side of the loop. The wire loop was pinched tight enough at the end to allow the core to be grabbed by the wire loop as tension was applied. Then I could quickly pull the core into the cover and out the exit point with little effort. This worked much better than I expected, and did not require any tape to secure the core to the wire pulling loop. The wire loop worked so well pulling the core into the cover, I used the same wire loop to pull the cover into the core (again without tape). I've done several splices now on this small 1/4" Sta-Set rope using this technique with great success. Thanks for the inspiration! :)

Wire fids
 

Hi again,
I'll just add that, with the extremely tight rope that was mentioned above, I was unable to splice it with any tool, including a wire fid. Tried not burying the core at all, but even then I couldn't run it home. Sometimes it really is a matter of bad rope.
Many splicers use wire fids for regular splicing. I like to think this is because they either can't afford a Wand, or never learned how to use one properly. Every once in a while, as above, I try to use a wire fid, just to see if I am missing something, and I still come away thinking, nope, not as good, mostly because it isn't stiff enough either to clamp over a bench, or to insert easily when splicing freehand. Clearly I have a vested interest here, though...
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

Splicing
 

Hello all,
This thread has attracted a very large number of views, so it is safe to say that the topic of difficulty with double-braid is of considerable interest. So I will just add that this stuff has been a challenge for people since it was invented, partly because most instructions are so bizarre, and partly because some skill is required, even when the rope is not defective. So if any of you have further questions/frustrations/observations about splicing, please feel free to start a thread. I'd really like to get splicing into people's hands.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss