Thimbles for 1x19 1/4'' splices
 

Hello,
I am relatively new to splicing, now thinking about trying it for real... The solid bronze thimbles I've found on the internet are, however, relatively expensive. How bad are SS enclosed thimbles?
Thanks for advise
Petr

If thw wire you're splicing is Stainless, then stainless thimbles are fine. If the wire is galvanized, stick wuth galvanized thimbles. It is best to keep similar metals together.

Many thanks. My wire will be SS 6mm. What about the forces that might flatten the thimble? I have no idea how much can SS thimbles take? Apprentice recommends solid thimbles to deal with this issue. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks Petr

what is the piece of rigging to control (loads involved) ?

Shrouds, stays, all under 4000lb.

Hello,
do you think that SS thimbles could take such loads?
Many thanks
Petr

Although many boats were(and are) rigged with plain thimbles (Alberg 30, for one) and they seem to work alright for quite a while, over time the thimbles either crack or deform.

Some of the rigs I have seen made this way are 30 yrs old and haven't cracked or deformed, while othertimes we see thimbles crush after one sail. I think if the loads are around 1/2 of the rated cable load the thimble will probably be fine.

Calling the thimble manufacuturer and asking for the load rating for use on a 7/16" pin (or whatever size your using) is your best bet for an absolute answer.

Many thanks. Petr

Best way
 

Hello,
There are three problems with 1x19 on thimbles. One is that 1x19 puts more load on less area, so thimble deformation or failure is a frequent problem.
Next, 1x19 is not happy with a tight radius; it is weaker when bent too much, so a wider than usual thimble is important.
Finally, turnbuckles and tangs nowadays are sized for 1x19 swages and the like, so you can't solve the above problems by going with oversize thimbles.
That's why Herreshoff pattern 1x19 thimbles are the best solution. Not cheap, but of course they last forever. Have you tried Port Townsend Foundry?
I have seen rigs with lighter, narrower thimbles. As Brian noted, some were fine, and some weren't, indicating that some boats are loaded more heavily than others. It's a bad idea to assume that the standing rig -- or any other boat component -- will be lightly loaded, just to rationalize taking a shortcut or making a cost savings. The rig is not there to suit your situation. Quite the opposite.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

Hello,
thanks for the comment. I was looking around and rationalizing, but it really seems that 1x19 with "some normal" thimbles would be a risky way to go. We are cruising boat, so ease of repair and low cost (and other virtues mentioned in Apprentice and elsewhere :)) are on the top of the list. So we started to think about 5/16 7x7, which we could use with normal thimbles as I understand and might be in the end: easier to do and cheaper.

Any practical comments on that? I know 7x7 will have to be larger (I decided to go safe with 9/32" 1x19 or 5/16" 7x7) and perhaps not as handsome. More flexing too.

There is one question for the 1x19 and bronze thimbles option: the Apprentice doesn't mention insulating the wire from the bronze thimble. Is it not necessary? Should I rather go with galvanized wire instead of SS?

Also please comment on the longevity. With mechanical terminals people say, change at least every 10 years (we are/will be in tropics, so perhaps even sooner) (well be bought a boat with swages and 15 year old rigging ;)). From what I hear about splices, they can last much longer. This is very appealing too (of course with periodic inspection).

Didn't know about Port Townsend, will write them now, Many thanks.

(There is still the option to get Norseman in the end, but that's a boring idea... )

Many thanks
Petr

"The rig is not there to suit your situation. Quite the opposite. "

Is this becasue we only engage in 'Yachting' under sail these days ?

I had alway assumed the great variety of rig design and type is just becasue every task under sail we needed to complete required a different process, or rig to handle it...

I am not saying that you shoud sail across the Atlantic in a Bolger Tortise, but boats should most certainly be built to your requirements, be it budget, cruising grounds, or storage needs, whatever. Just pay attention.

Thanks Brian,
that's my thinking as well, I only care about save rigging that I could easily inspect and repair. But I am in inconvenient position now and I have to make a decision, order the material etc. and obviously I don't have much experience. E.g. I can't get the 9/32" 1x19 wire, will have to order it from abroad.
In fact I am not afraid to do the work, on the contrary, but I am afraid I won't be getting much help once I start, because so far I only met people who encourage me to buy their swages or terminals and even let them unstep my mast and do all the work - too difficult they say.
So I am asking lot of questions to be little more sure what are the best steps :)
Petr

Hi Brian,
Point taken.Any given boat is a result of a given context, and the contexts vary wonderfully. It would have been more precise for me to say that, for a given context, the rig must be designed to handle the likely extremes of loading within that context, and that it would be risky to try to convince ourselves that those extremes would never happen, in the interests of cutting some corners in order to save money, or time. The boat in question is a cruising boat, and therefore subject to sailing in harm's way, over extended periods, far from any chandlery. The loads are fixed, and therefore to some extent the costs. Neither the rig nor the ocean know or care how much the owner has to spend.
If, on the other hand, that same owner set about looking for a boat that suited a given budget, cruising ground, etc., then we might be talking about a different boat.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

Hi again,
Now we're getting somewhere. First, stay with 1x19. It is readily available domestically in 9/32", and if you are having trouble finding it, be in touch with our shop and we'll send you some. 1x19 is spliceable, and fits ordinary turnbuckles and tangs. 7x7 is easier to splice, but you'll need non-standard turnbuckles and tangs, plus getting good stuff means overseas, means really expensive.
Learning to splice the stuff is a serious endeavor, so I hope you have lots of time and patience. You will need to invest in tools, particularly a good rigging vise. This will probably cost more than Sta-Loks or Hayns.
Once you have the splice, you might be able to make up gangs for other people in far away places, in which case the investment will have been worth it.
We'll soon be releasing a video on how to splice 7x7, and I have always recommended this as a first step to learning how to splice 1x19. Many people, including several of my apprentices, have jumped straight to the latter splice, but I think that's going the hard way. Let us know if you'd like to see a video.
One other option: Dynex Dux standing rigging, with Colligo or Precourt deadeyes.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

Hello,
many thanks. Unfortunately I am overseas (Singapore), but I can get 9/32" easily (even if I ordered e.g. from riggingonly it would be almost similar local price).
I think my problem would be that I would start to rush things, since our rig is now old and needs to be replaced at once and I wouldn't probably have a chance to test my splices.

Honestly I didn't know about Dynex Dux. I've read threads here and what I could find on the internet. I was concerned about longevity. All I found was that 3000hours of exposure to sun reduces strength by 15% and that trawlers replace their rope every 5 years.
So can I assume that it's a reliable way to do the rigging? Should I consider rope in the cover (hope for better UV protection) or just rope will do fine? I see that the main concerns are creep (seems to be less of a problems) and UV degradation. Any other?

Many thanks
Petr

Just thought of bronze hanks chafe on headstay. Will that be a problem?

Must admit I didn't actually notice his mention of cruising grounds or whatever, I am just saying....

Oh, precourt makes some soft hanks of spectra line and bone shackles, should solve that chafe problem (they say).

Sorry, might have forgot to mention it - SE Asia right now and then probably back home to Europe. From what I was able to find about the Dynex Dux, I am not sure if it's a good longtime solution. Perhaps it would be wisest to opt for the mechanical terminals after all, given our lack of time.
Thanks for everyone's comment
Petr